Challenging the orthodoxy

J

Jose

I posted something that contradicted what some trainer said in his own forum. The statement I contradicted was that there is no importance to the way a handgun fits the hand when it comes to shooting accurately. The forum moderator challenged me and when I explained the basis for my position on the issue of handgun fit he responded in a mildly condescending manner and locked the thread.

Needless to say I no longer bother contributing there nor even reading anything there. Nor will I ever spend a cent training with the forum's owner.

If they are that insecure in what they teach, then it must not be very solid.
 
Hmmm. I'm sure 1911 hardball guns fit every Distinguished bullseye shooter well then. And they could only use one hand and not two. :-\
 
bpm990d said:
Service pistols and rifles don't fit anyone very well.

B
Click to expand...

The M1911 fit my hand (and most others) very well. Round butt S&W revolvers with modern boot grips fit my hand as if they were born there and are one of the reasons I shoot them so well and quickly. S&W TDA semi autos fit me pretty well, as well as M&Ps. Glocks, not so much.

That forum/trainer is extremely Glock-centric and any slight towards Glocks or any disagreement with the master, real or perceived, is dealt with by the mob.
 
The fit of the gun

There is no question in my mind that having a gun that fits your hand is very important to accuracy, especially if you are going to the range to shoot a lot. Shooting a gun that is too large is going to cause some pain. Consider the case of a large, for you, gun where you must turn the gun to reach the trigger. By turning the gun, the gun no longer lines up with the bones of your forearm and does line up so the the recoil pulse is more toward your thumb. While a gun can be fired this way it will or can cause some pain.
With all that said, in a self defence situation with only a few shots fired, it can be toughed out and still have good enough acuracy
 
Hand/gun fit is very important. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be umteen aftermarket grip manufacturers out there.
Grip texture is also important, hence checkering, textured plastics, rubber grips with finger notches ect.
Grip angle/ergonomics is also important. Some pistols really suck the way they are made and require an unnatural and uncomfortable hold to shoot them. Some Commblock military pistols are a good example of this.
 
Did you guys follow the cold link to the discussion to see how fast it got locked when I disagreed with the "master"?
 
I've been banned for disagreeing with the masters!!!!!!

Screw that place. Any "trainer" that cannot bear such scrutiny is not worthy of my time or money.
 
linky no workee---
Click to expand...

It errored out, they probably just nuked the whole
thread.---
Click to expand...
Just take the space out between the 1 and the 0, then sign up.

getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/962106881/m/9941 067573



That's not the first forum you've been banned from, nor will it likely be the last.---TheFaz
Click to expand...

It didn’t seem like much of a disagreement to get banned over, so I’m guessing that there was a history between the two.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
jkelly said:
It didn’t seem like much of a disagreement to get banned over, so I’m guessing that there was a history between the two.
Click to expand...
Actually, I rarely posted there. I think I made less than 100 posts in the last year. But I dared to question the master.
 
Actually, I rarely posted there. I think I made less than 100 posts in the last year. But I dared to question the master.---jose
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I know 74 posts since 10 Jan 07, yet you were banned. The Moderator appears to have mocked you in his last line before locking the thread. I wonder if Calhoun was banned too?


jkelly
 
jkelly said:
I know 74 posts since 10 Jan 07, yet you were banned. The Moderator appears to have mocked you in his last line before locking the thread. I wonder if Calhoun was banned too?


jkelly
Click to expand...
Yeah, big man...huh?

No loss on my part.
 
I still can't find it. Can someone just point me to the forum name and thread name?---M1911
Click to expand...
This should take you to the forum you will need to log in:

getoffthex.com/eve/forums/




This should take you to the thread, jose is alpha sierra:

getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/962106881/m/9941067573 remove the space between the "1" and "0" in 99410 67573


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
Yeager told you that he has often seen that gun break in his class. His students run their guns hard and he sees what works and what doesnt. His point about fit is that even if a gun does not perfectly fit you you can still shoot it effectively. Unfortunately, he did not not elaborate fully
 
Jose:

I suspect this is the post that did it:
Anyone who takes the time to analytically think about what they are doing with a firearm and the feedback they receive from it rather than just burning powder to make noise can make the same observations and come to similar conclusions.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good flame (basically implying that the mod doesn't think about what he is doing). So it is no surprise that you got canked.

I don't think you got canked for disagreeing with the mod. I think you got canked for flaming.
 
IMO while Jose was mildly caustic, his commentary didn't
hold a candle to the circle jerk that was basically
going on there. The distinct impression I got was "We're
right, you're wrong, do not question the AUTHORITAY!"

While it's great to have a doctrine and stick to it, it' doesn't
do anyone any good if nobody bothered to explain why Jose
was "wrong" about his assertion. Nobody in that thread
said "Well, in reality that is meaningless because this this and
that are what really control how you point the gun" or anything
logical which would counter his assertion. IMO their responses
were rude and condescending, and imparted no information. Even
on NES when Scrivener reams someone out, a lot of times he
at least tries to explain why he's excoriating them. [laugh]

Edit: there were some users that replied with positive
information. Didn't seem like the majorty, though.

Some of the replies also reminded me of the moonintes from
ATHF. "We're beyond everything- possibly anything you could
possibly comprehend with 100 percent of your brain."

Even if they ARE "right", they fail to acknowledge that their
very system was probably developed the same way that Jose
suggests- through research, practice, and observation. There is
no way to find out what does and does not work, without
testing it. Even in advanced fields of science where things
are hammered out pretty well, scientists still have to test
things.

WRT the issue about guns, etc, yeah, there will be a gun that,
mechanically, is intrinsically better, more reliable, etc... but if it doesn't
"work" for the particular shooter, then whats the point?


-Mike
 
Last edited:
M1911 said:
Jose:

I suspect this is the post that did it:

That's a pretty good flame (basically implying that the mod doesn't think about what he is doing). So it is no surprise that you got canked.

I don't think you got canked for disagreeing with the mod. I think you got canked for flaming.
Click to expand...

It's only a flame to those who are insecure in their positions and cannot defend them in a rational manner.

Instead of offering their own evidence to bolster their point, all they do is bluff and bluster how the questioner is not "professional enough".

I have no time to waste on people like that. Good riddance.
 
Davidk said:
Yeager told you that he has often seen that gun break in his class. His students run their guns hard and he sees what works and what doesnt. His point about fit is that even if a gun does not perfectly fit you you can still shoot it effectively. Unfortunately, he did not not elaborate fully
Click to expand...
The reliability of the CZ75 is not my concern nor was it the topic of my posts on that thread.

I don't have one, nor do I have a Glock, so I am not interested in the relative reliability of one vs the other.

He made a blanket statement about the lack of importance of ergonomics WRT shooting handguns without explanation. I offered a reasoned rebuttal. His admirers shut me down. One has to wonder why.
 

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