Carcano gurus i need help ID'ing

D

DPN86

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This rifle I've got. Its been in my family for a very long time, since before Ive been alive anyways.
I had it looked at by a gunsmith and it also went under a chamber cast. Came back 6.5x52 Carcano and safe to fire.
I've done a bunch of research on them and i think it may be a 91/38 Carcano... BUT i cant seem to find any that look like it.

I'm going to assume at some point in its life it underwent alot of changes.. why, i will never know, but maybe i was hoping someone could shine some light on it.
what model it is, roughly when it was made, what it was supposed to look like, and maybe even why someone would have modified the sights the way they did.

I went to the range with it today and i had a blast shooting it!! 100yards out, even with the super crummy sights i was plinking steel.

here are pictures of every marking on her.


Here she is. Ugly carvings and all!! I really don't know why someone would do that to her.
I've never seen a stock like this on a Carcano (no bands, no upper trim, weird front sight just about placed on the tip of the barrel)


Front sight.. I've not seen a Carcano with the front sight so close to the tip, there pictures about .5-1" back.


Pic of the but stock, the top screw is so badly warn it looks as if it were molded there.



a picture of the number on the stalk, looks as if someone tried to scratch it off. (prob because it does not match the number on the barrel as i read that it should) I believe it reads A0086


here are the markings on the barrel. As you can see someone really ground off the rear sight so much so that the caliber stamp is gone and the sight is unusable while shooting. You can also see here how the number is different than the stock.



here you can really see how badly the rear sight is removed & more marking I'm unsure of the meaning
in the second pic you can just barely make out a stamp 66 9



Crown marking on the bolt arm


all the pictures I've seen, i have not seen a bolt bent so close to the stalk like this.. but it does not appear modified (bent)


don't know if this stamp means anything


another stamp I'm unsure means anything.





Well if anyone can help ID this baby for me i would be greatly appreciated!!!

And to end with a vid taken today of one of the first shots made in 30+ years. Second shot that the shooter has made with the rifle. 8" target was out 100yards.
Carcano 6.5 target shooting. 8" target 100yards out bullseye. - YouTube
 
I will add onto what Martin and Majspud have said. It is an early WWI era Carcano, 1917 and with the hex barrel at the receiver. It has what looks like an original fixed rear sight. But I am not sure of that or if it was added during the sporterization. It should have a straight bolt. The maker, Mida I am not familiar with and have not seen it before. I will have to look that up and get back to you. Brescia is the town the factory was located. Most likely it was cut down from a 91 but the rear sight makes me wonder. I will do some research and get back to you. I will say, it is one of the ugliest Bubbahed milsurps I have ever seen. The painting takes the cake. Despite popular opinion, these are very good shooting rifles. They just do not feel as solid as a 03, an SMLE, Mosin or a Mauser, but they can get the job done just as well. The enbloc Mannlicher clip system was completely outdated by WWI however.
 
If you are interested in a correct one, the pic I posted is on an auction from a dealer I have bought 4 guns from.

T
 
Now that I have had more time I would like to correct some of my earlier comments.

The rear sight is an add on done most likely during the sporterization. It looks nothing like what a Carcano fixed rear sight should look like. I believe that the rifle originally had a graduated rear sight but that it sat too high when they cut the barrel down so they replaced it with what is on there now. Notice how much more lower it sits. Also notice the slots in the inside of the top of the stock forward of the rear sights. Those slots would have been where the rear sight sat like in this picture of my 1942 FAT 91/41.
View attachment 78996

I think we can say with certainty that this was a 91 cut down to carbine length. The muzzle end of the barrel just does not look right or well done. The front sight looks like it should so they just reused that from the cut off tip. If you would like to measure the barrel length, then we could compare that to the known lengths for the WWI carbines.

The bolt also does not look like a carbine bolt but was bent by the person sporterizing this gun. It does not flair out the way a factory bent carbine bolt should.

It is too bad it was done up the way it was. Mida only made rifles in 1917 and 1918. There are not too many of them around which is why I was umfamiliar with them. Here is a link for a 1918 Mida too see what yours use to look like. The rear sight in the pics is much different than that of my 1942 91/41. You can see the slots as well. http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7287354

I did not mean to deride your rifle. When this rifle was cut up and bubbad no one collected them, no one cared how many rifles Mida made, no one cared about these old junkie milsurp guns. It was a $10 rifle and did not matter much what happened to them. The ammo was available and cheap and who ever worked on it made themselves a nice personalised deer rifle. I have a nice Enfield No. 4 that I got for $35 a couple of years ago. it was cut up, ground down, rebarreled and was the ugliest Enfield I had ever seen. I re-worked it and made it nicer and it now my favorite deer rifle and took my first deer with it last year.

BTW, welcome to the world of milsurps.
 
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wow Thanks NinerMaine! some great info there.. and no worries i know its a very ugly step child i've got, no feelings were hurt LOL
I also have a nother Carcano looking (steyr) long rifle that is un-tortured and looks to be 100% original but the bolt is frozen shut. i'm going to bring it to the gun smith to have them look at it.
i've really gotten into the older stuff just b/c its very cool to hold/fire something and think what it has seen in its lifetime.
Thanks again for the info!!
 
So last nigh, while searching Instagram i found a Carcano that looks exactly like mine, minus the ugly ass carvings. The stamps on his apparently are different than mine (i told him to look at this thread) but the shape, stalk, and bolt shape are the exact same.

here is a picture of his Carcano

 
I can only guess as to why yours looks so much like this one in the pic. In the 60's when it was common for milsurps to be turned into hunting rifles, there were books and magazines published on how the home gunsmith can go about it. I have one such book for the K98. So...anyone following such a book would most likely end up with a gun that looks similar to the other people following a book. Bending a straight bolt is fairly straight forward. They would all look similar.

BTW: I picked up a vintage copy of "The Gun Collector's Handbook of Values" 1964-1965 issue, and no where in that book is a 20th century milsurp rifle is mentioned. They were busy collecting the guns of the 1800's back then, which was only 60 years in the past. Sort of like we are doing now. We collect guns from 60 years ago. It is interesting to think about.
 
Can anyone confirm this model carcano? I was looking for my grandfather's 22 rifle and found these...I think it's a model m1938/43 short rifle?...caliber 7.92mm Mauser?...can you get rounds for these?...are all the clips for carcanos the same?...think it's safe to fire after being cleaned?



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The Germans clearly marked their Carcano conversions. Some of these were converted after the war as well, those were marked too. What makes you think this is 8mm? Have you tried to fit an 8mm shell into it? There is no way an 8mm cartridge will fit in a chamber for a 6.5 or 7.5 Carcano. So that is the easiest way to tell.

What you have is a Moschetto Modello 91/38 Truppe Speciali or Moschetto 91/38 TS. Most likely in 6.5 Carcano. I have one just like yours and is RA 28XXX. This were early on made in 7.5 but were then they started to make them in 6.5. Mine is a 6.5 so I think yours would be as well since it is later. Nice gun. This are not that common compared to the 91/38's. I like the TS better than the 38's.

FNA-B was the maker. It stood for something like National Arms Factory Brescia. Brescia being the city.

http://candrsenal.com/terminology-a-quick-and-dirty-guide-to-carcano-rifle-models/



This is a continuation of the original M91 T.S. carbine and featured in the same specialty roles. All versions feature simplified, fixed rear sights. Production continued until at least 1943, perhaps into 1944.

This rifle was introduced in the new 7.5x53mm cartridge but later reverted to 6.5x52mm because of logistical issues in the Italian military. Caliber may be determined by reading the rear sight. Additionally, some were converted to 7.92x57mm post war in attempts to market to the middle east. These will be marked on the rear sight and the stock.
Click to expand...
 
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Point37 said:
Can anyone confirm this model carcano? I was looking for my grandfather's 22 rifle and found these...I think it's a model m1938/43 short rifle?...caliber 7.92mm Mauser?...can you get rounds for these?...are all the clips for carcanos the same?...think it's safe to fire after being cleaned?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It's great that it still has a bayonet. The carcano bayonets can be hard to find, and some are fairly expensive.
 
Thanks so much NinerMaine for all the info. That looks about right from that link. Sling straps, fixed sights and a little over 36" long. Is it hard to find clips and ammo for this? I found some clips on eBay that are either brass or steel and seem to be for both 6.5 and 7.35...any preference to the metal?...is there a readily available ammo size that will work with this rifle? Thanks again for all the help

Yes the bayonet is in pretty good shape too...




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6.5 Carcano is still made by PPU, I am not sure where it is in stock. It is not bad price wise and works well enough. It is not the same ballistics at the military ammo but it is good for plinking. I sometimes still find the clips and surplus ammo in gun stores. Usually in the back in a box or back. It helps to ask. I also reload for it. But to be honest, I do not shoot my Carcanos that much. I just like to collect them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?dimensionids=9943
 
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Thanks again...I'm sure I can't get ammo shipped to Massachusetts so I'll have to try and find some at a shop somewhere...I'll def pick up 1 or 2 of those clips though


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If your looking for 6.5,and live near Natick MA. GFA ARMS TEK has some.
 
I got three on them from LT for my 1884/1887/1916 Vetterli conversion; two work perfectly and the other hangs up and jams a round once in a while.

T
 
Would someone here help in identifying some ammunition.

I purchased some Swiss 7.5x55 Ammo in chargers not to long ago. I was much more (only) interested in the Chargers, but the ammo was a bonus.

When I got home, took the rounds out of the Chargers and discovered the following:


4689740de004bb033f9398190739aea3.jpg
2b86f855e4b9a880e45682d2588a8071.jpg


I apologize for the crappy cellphone pics!

Not sure how to properly describe a head stamp. But at the O'clock positions 12-3-6-9 are the following:

4
S
24
D

They look like 6.5x62 Carcano. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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