California Detective: Citizens Who Open Carry Should be Shot

[mikem317]

Oh boy.

Facebook Comment Stirs 'Open Carry' Debate

Posted: 5:36 pm PST February 9, 2010
Updated: 7:53 pm PST February 9, 2010

EAST PALO ALTO, Calif. -- A controversy was brewing in East Palo Alto Tuesday night after a police detective made apparently joking comments through his Facebook account saying “open carry” advocates who visibly carry guns in public should be shot.

Now East Palo Alto has become a reluctant testing ground for a battle of constitutional amendments: one police officer's 'freedom of speech' versus a group’s 'right to bear arms.'

Area resident Adnan Shahab is an “open carry” advocate who frequently goes out in public displaying an unloaded gun on his belt. Such activity is legal in California with certain restrictions, such as staying clear of schools.

Shahab said he was offended by Facebook remarks posted by East Palo Alto detective Rod Tuason. Tuason published a comment that said he agreed with a friend that open carry advocates should come to Oakland, Richmond and East Palo Alto and -- in an apparent joke -- said officers should shoot the advocates.

"So it's a little shocking and disappointing to hear that a sworn officer is basically so cavalier with violating a person's second amendment rights and basically putting a bullet in them for doing absolutely nothing wrong," said Shahab.

East Palo Alto police were investigating whether the remarks violate department policies.

Police also point out the remarks were made in a personal, private web page and were only made public by a blogger.

East Palo Alto Mayor David E. Woods told KTVU by phone that he was waiting for the police department investigation. He also expressed some misgivings about the behavior of open carry advocates.

"But I am concerned -- although it's legal -- about people walking around with firearms," said Mayor Woods. (My comment: What about the people with government-issued jewelry and pretty dark blue costumes? They carry firearms all day long.)

Adnan Shahab said he believes the fact the comments came from a facebook exchange made the remarks and any perceived threat more credible.

"Quite honestly I feel a little unsafe going to East Palo Alto right now," explained Shahab.

Police said there was no timetable for the investigation. Detective Tuason remained on-duty and did not return KTVU’s call requesting an interview.

Copyright 2010 by KTVU.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Linky: http://www.ktvu.com/news/22516072/detail.html

 

[Admin]

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[jtc]

I moved here from CA, this topic has been going around for a while. There's a big group in the San Diego area that have regular get-togethers and exercise their right to open carry. Their goal is to desensitize people from seeing citizens with a gun and freaking out. The cops usually get called and have to come check them out.

As far as what this detective said, well that's his own opinion and its being blown out of proportion (as many things do these days). If he doesn't feel safe, maybe he should consider moving to a state like MA where open carry isn't allowed/accepted. We all have choices (until the government steps in)

 

[securityboy]

I'll be interested to see how this thread "swings"...

Chief of Police uses what is posted on this web site to deny someone a LTC and we all got upset...

Will we stand behind this Palo Alto Detective and show him the same support for being able to post his thoughts and ideas on his facebook page, you know the support we showed the fella here who was denied a license for what he posted here...

Funny I think we'll see a number of hyporcritical posts, because this time its "one of them" talking about "us"...We'll see

 

[Admin]

apples and oranges. I don't think anyone in here ever posted about killing law abiding CCW'ers. Good try though.

 

[gixxer_kid]

Been all over arfcom for days now.

 

[drgrant]

I'll be interested to see how this thread "swings"...

Chief of Police uses what is posted on this web site to deny someone a LTC and we all got upset...

Will we stand behind this Palo Alto Detective and show him the same support for being able to post his thoughts and ideas on his facebook page, you know the support we showed the fella here who was denied a license for what he posted here...

Funny I think we'll see a number of hyporcritical posts, because this time its "one of them" talking about "us"...We'll see

The difference is the detective might get "yelled at" whoopy do. They're not gonna fire him for that. Meanwhile, a citizen is denied his rights. Ignoring the obvious other differences (which are glaring, because IMHO they're not at all similar) that alone is a killer.

-Mike

 

[securityboy]

apples and oranges. I don't think anyone in here ever posted about killing law abiding CCW'ers. Good try though.

No not really seems the same to me...article says "joking comments through his Facebook account saying “open carry” advocates who visibly carry guns in public should be shot." see that "joking comments" that is different than the spin you are trying to put on it "killing law abiding [STRIKE]CCW'er [/STRIKE]open carriers"...personal opinions/questions/humor blown out of proportion seems the same to me...just like "the chief" can't handle a few questions about his departments licensing policys, you can't handle joking bout "us"...

...As far as what this detective said, well that's his own opinion and its being blown out of proportion (as many things do these days)...

Exactly...

 

[mikem317]

No not really seems the same to me...article says "joking comments through his Facebook account saying “open carry” advocates who visibly carry guns in public should be shot." see that "joking comments" that is different than the spin you are trying to put on it "killing law abiding [STRIKE]CCW'er [/STRIKE]open carriers"...personal opinions/questions/humor blown out of proportion seems the same to me...just like "the chief" can't handle a few questions about his departments licensing policys, you can't handle joking bout "us"...

I'm sure the opinion of a private citizen who believes killing cops on Facebook would be well received.

Of course, they'd be joking too.

 

[securityboy]

I'm sure the opinion of a private citizen who believes killing cops on Facebook would be well received.

Of course, they'd be joking too.

Umm yeah, if you got pulled over this AM and were pissed off about your ticket, and wrote on your personal facebook account "I coulda killed that Supa Troopa for that" do you really think anyone will care? More so do you think there is any chance you will recieve a reprimand at work becasue of it???

 

[terraformer]

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This looks better...

 

[owningpeoplesince1984]

apples and oranges. I don't think anyone in here ever posted about killing law abiding CCW'ers. Good try though.

With Derek on this one...

 

[bhmax16]

With Derek on this one...

Me too +1

 

[bhmax16]

East Palo Alto cop: Shoot a gun owner, get '2 weeks off!!!'

February 10, 8:20 AMGun Rights ExaminerDavid Codrea

"And if one of them makes a furtive
movement ... 2 weeks off!!!"

Courtesy Oleg Volk, A Human Right

There's a disturbing, infuriating story in the Daily News about open carriers--or more accurately, about comments East Palo Alto police detective Rod Tuason allegedly made about them on his Facebook page:

"Sounds like you had someone practicing their 2nd amendment rights last night!" Tuason wrote. "Should've pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them makes a furtive movement ... 2 weeks off!!!"

Tuason even took the opportunity to ridicule the fact that "law-abiding" gun owners can't get concealed carry permits. From the screenshot on the "Oaklander" blog":

Haha that's when you attend one of their meetings and laugh at them cuz they can only dream to have a ccw...

We've seen the "Only One" attitude at its most ridiculous--I developed the meme in response to DEA agent Lee Paige: "I'm the only one in this room professional enough that I know of to carry this Glock .40," he told a roomful of school kids in an anti-gun/drug lecture, then proceeded to shoot himself in the foot trying to holster the weapon.

Now we see it manifest itself in police state elitism that's chilling--particularly the implication that a citizen breaking no laws can be murdered and the state perpetrator will be rewarded with paid time off. And the rest, who are intimidated into defenselessness, are to be laughed at and held in contempt by armed enforcers.

A poster claiming to be Tuason and using the screen name ".45shooter" is a regular at the CalGuns forum. He claims to be pro-gun and says he "should have chosen [his] words better...".

Yeah, no kidding, genius. I don't buy that he didn't let slip a state of mind that has been developed over years in an environment fostering the "us vs. them" divide." So much for "securing the blessings of Liberty".

I understand that many police work under conditions where wanting to go home at the end of their shift can be a real concern. I and my fellow gun owners would like to go home at the end of your shift too, fellas. And our lives are worth a hell of a lot more to ourselves, our families and our children than two weeks leave for you, followed by the standard declaration that official protocols were followed.

Nice job, detective. More of us than you know are disgusted and angered instead of cowed by your words.

So thanks for the "2 weeks off!!!" slogan. What a useful tool for refuting the myth that creatures like you are the "only ones" we can trust with guns

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Well, before I pass judgement I would like to know the context of the entire conversation. While my "knee-jerk" reaction would be to say this guy should be fired on sight, I'd like to see exactly what he meant.

 

[Half Cocked]

Stupid comment.

 

[sleeplessknight]

More equal.

 

[securityboy]

East Palo Alto cop: Shoot a gun owner, get '2 weeks off!!!'...

I don't think you are following what I am saying...NO WHERE am I saying what he posted was smart, what he posted was "stupid", just like some stuff posted by the poster who was denied an LTC, which is why some suggested he basicly "cool it" and watch what he says/asks, and why some of those posts don't exist anymore...

We got two cases of people posting "stupid" stuff on the internet, we think it is terrible when the guy who is "one of us" gets punished (no LTC) for what he says, but when someone posts stupid stuff about "us" on the internet we expect him to hang for it ( <---see that there another humorous "killing" post).

Joke about the Thin Blue Line all you want, not a big deal, but there is definately a thin "shooters" line as well (just don't know what color we should have)...

 

[M1911]

"should have chosen [his] words better..."

East Palo Alto, now there's a craphole I'm familiar with.

 

[hyooz2004]

im confused.. why is the guy thats offended in the story "open carrying" an unloaded gun? i get that you cant open carry a loaded gun, im guessing.. but does he have a full magazine in his pocket or does he just like to carry around an unloaded gun to look/feel cool

 

[ChevyGuy91]

CA law, they use unloaded open carry to get around unconstitutionally denying CCW permits. I thought about doing once or twice for giggles while I lived there, but didn't wind up bothering.

 

[JackDaniels]

The problem I have is that the cop speciffically states that the person that he is advocating killing, is practicing his constitutional rights. Now, do you really want armed thugs walking around advocating the murder of people who are practicing their rights? This is the guy that serves, protects, and upholds the law? Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

Sure, he said he was only joking. He admitted that right after he got in trouble for it. Right?

Sorry, I don't care if he is joking about it. Publicly joking about murdering those who practice law-obiding activities should not be tolerated when it comes from law enforcement. To me, that is a conflict with your professional responsiblities. This guy should be flipping burgers next week.

 

[Titan]

No not really seems the same to me...article says "joking comments through his Facebook account saying “open carry” advocates who visibly carry guns in public should be shot." see that "joking comments" that is different than the spin you are trying to put on it "killing law abiding [STRIKE]CCW'er [/STRIKE]open carriers"...personal opinions/questions/humor blown out of proportion seems the same to me...just like "the chief" can't handle a few questions about his departments licensing policys, you can't handle joking bout "us"...


Exactly...

Try joking about lynching a black guy on your Facebook page and see how much freedom of speech you're granted.


The guy on here who was denied an LTC, apparently was just enthusiastic about being able to carry, and then committed the unspeakable crime of questioning the time it was taking for the process. I completely agree with derek...apples and oranges.

BTW, when I got my license the law said the applicant had to recieve a response in 60 days. It actually took 4 months.

Fortunately I didn't have the temerity to question the powers that be in public, or I might not be carrying today.

 

[WEJ 1163]

Clearly in many parts of the country gun owners and those wanting to carry a firearm for protection are considered unstable in the first place. How many LEO's have the very same opinion as this guy.

The sentiment I believe is often that the regular every day guy can't be trusted to be responsible enough for the likes of this cop. The "joke" is in very bad taste but I'm sure it's the frosting on a much more disturbing cake.

If he's willing to put these ideas out in the netherworld of the internet what is he thinking that he's not verbalizing.

 

[MetalgodZ]

I'll be interested to see how this thread "swings"...

Funny I think we'll see a number of hyporcritical posts, because this time its "one of them" talking about "us"...We'll see

You just don't f***ing get it.

How's that "swing" going?

ETA:
Hrm...yep, he's on CalGuns, posting under the name ".45Shooter", and the thread's here:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=267601&page=24

 

[securityboy]

You just don't f***ing get it.

How's that "swing" going?

ETA:
Hrm...yep, he's on CalGuns, posting under the name ".45Shooter", and the thread's here:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=267601&page=24

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say...

As you can see by this thread the "swing" is going exactly like I figured it would...When one of us doesn't get a LTC because of what they posted on the internet we get upset, when some one else talks about us on an internet forum, we also get upset, but this time we're upset because the sanctions against the person talking about "us" weren't harsh enough...

Its simply ammusing to watch a group who (correctly) loves to advocate for the various rights we have as individuals, yet when the shoe is on the other foot we get a little squirly...

 

[GSG]

I don't think you are following what I am saying...NO WHERE am I saying what he posted was smart, what he posted was "stupid", just like some stuff posted by the poster who was denied an LTC, which is why some suggested he basicly "cool it" and watch what he says/asks, and why some of those posts don't exist anymore...

We got two cases of people posting "stupid" stuff on the internet, we think it is terrible when the guy who is "one of us" gets punished (no LTC) for what he says, but when someone posts stupid stuff about "us" on the internet we expect him to hang for it ( <---see that there another humorous "killing" post).

Joke about the Thin Blue Line all you want, not a big deal, but there is definately a thin "shooters" line as well (just don't know what color we should have)...

Exactly. We moan when a Mass. chief won't give someone a machine gun license, but shriek when cops have AR's in their cruiser. Are rights not rights?

The problem I have is that the cop speciffically states that the person that he is advocating killing, is practicing his constitutional rights. Now, do you really want armed thugs walking around advocating the murder of people who are practicing their rights? This is the guy that serves, protects, and upholds the law? Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

So if he joked about shooting someone who was excercising rights that aren't specifically enumerated in the Constitution, the joke would be more or less serious?

You just don't f***ing get it.

I'm glad that you posted that, because it put the conversation into context.

If those "open carry advocates" are anything like Ridley and his clowns, I think the cop has a great point: go act like an idiot in a bad neighborhood and see how far the Constitution takes you against those crack dealers. If they're so big on deterring crime with their mere presence, I'd encourage them to take their presence to the crime and not the pretty places where soccer moms drive SUV's.

Ever see the movie Training Day? All those scenes where gang bangers are walking around on rooftops open carrying AK's were not staged; those were real gang bangers with real guns in California. That movie was the first time in the history of the Imperial Courts projects that the Crips allowed video cameras to film inside. That is without a doubt a neighborhood where an open carried gun deterring crime shown courtesy of a video camera would be a wonderful thing...so put your money where your mouth is DadaOrwell. Wade into the right neighborhood with the wrong attitude to pick up some litter. You have my permission, the Constitution, and an Uncle Mike's holster...you'll do fine, and you won't need to call those JBT's for help either.

Yes, I'm being somewhat sarcastic, but he makes a damn good point. People on here clap when "open carry rights activists" do their best to cause a scene in nice neighborhoods and get in the faces of the cops who respond to the 911 calls that they made themselves. It's great to let other people on the Internet see how fearless they are with the people who actually know and care about their rights, in the videos they hand picked to show how buffoon-ish the cops are.

I've never met any CA open carry rights groups, or seen videos of their exploits. But if they're anything like the one's that cops in NH have to put up with, then I can't say that I'm offended by a few cops making jokes on a private social networking site about them. As a gun owner I'm ashamed of most of their antics.

But, with all that said, I think the cop's a jerk and an idiot for victoriously crowing that they can't get a CCW, and if he goes around "proning out" every person with a pistol, especially when he reasonably knows that no law is being broken, then I think he deserves some criticism for what he says and does.

He very well might be a pr*ck, but hey, that's not a right solely reserved for the people who toe the Thin Blue Line.

 

[JackDaniels]

So if he joked about shooting someone who was excercising rights that aren't specifically enumerated in the Constitution, the joke would be more or less serious?

First of all, I don't believe the guy was completely joking. Because, apparently those thugs are "proning out" law-obiding citizens, by that conversation.

And no, I don't think it would be more or less serious. I do think that it is a conflict of interest for police officer to suggest that law obiding citizens should be harassed and or shot, for practicing law-obiding activities. I think that is plain as day. Is he protected by the 1A? Of course. But that doesn't mean that the protection of the 1A should save your job if you should be dumb enough to do what this guy did.

 

[Pete85]

I'm all for free speach, and it seems like this detective is also, but do you want your taxes paying the salary of a man who is issued a gun by the government, and openly says he he wants to shoot people who pose no danger and have broken no laws because it will get him a free two week vacation? Look at the thread of the Manchester-by-the-sea man who said something very similar.

At the very least, this man has now become a liability to the department because if he's ever in a situation where he does need to use his sidearm in the line of duty, this comment will come back to haunt him.

 

[terraformer]

First of all, I don't believe the guy was completely joking. Because, apparently those thugs are "proning out" law-obiding citizens, by that conversation.

And no, I don't think it would be more or less serious. I do think that it is a conflict of interest for police officer to suggest that law obiding citizens should be harassed and or shot, for practicing law-obiding activities. I think that is plain as day. Is he protected by the 1A? Of course. But that doesn't mean that the protection of the 1A should save your job if you should be dumb enough to do what this guy did.

I think they may be referring to incidents like this. http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14282441?source=rss&nclick_check=1

ETA: To be clear, this is an incident in his town of employment that occurred a week before his comment. I wonder if he was involved or his co workers are just as screwed up.