C&R ?

PATRON

PATRON

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I have done my 4 personal transfers for the year here in MA. My question is , some one out of State wants to buy a rifle from me, it is a C&R and I will be sending it to his FFL. Will selling it count as a transfer? When I purchased this rifle it went in my bound book and on a FA-10. MA law is so confusing when it comes to C&R......
 
Joe, No it will not count. Any transfer to/thru an FFL (no matter in what state) does not count as a "personal transfer" with respect to MGLs.
 
If it's a C&R rifle and the buyer has a C&R license it doesn't even need to go through an FFL since from the feds point of view, he is an FFL.

Ken
 
But since Mass doesn't recognize a C&R as anything more than a piece of paper should he stick with an FFL? Don't Mass gun laws state that you can't sell to anyone out of state without transfering it thru an FFL? So selling a C&R rifle to a C&R holder in Wisconsin for example would be a violation of Mass law but not Federal law? And selling a C&R handgun be the same?

If I read KMaurer correctly he is stating that federal law is the applicable one here. Just as a C&R holder can buy and receive directly from another C&R holder a C&R long gun or hand gun purchased from out of state, a C&R holder can sell and ship either C&R long guns or handguns directly to a C&R holder out of state without violating the law? Is the sale reported on an FA-10 or in some other way to the state? Or is the bound book the only documentation?
 
How about to another C&R ffl in any other state. As long as the bound book is the record according to the feds an FFL is an FFL and for a C&R firearm it just doesn't matter that it is an 03 as opposed to an 01 FFL?!?

I'm thinking about selling a couple of rifles and if someone from out of Mass is interested, I want to minimize the cost to the buyer by avoiding 01 FFL transfers is possible. Thus I want to be sure about the C&R to C&R transfer.

Thanks
 
Yes, a direct C&R FFL to C&R FFL transfer across state lines is allowed under federal law. Though keep in mind that there's no easy way to verify a C&R FFL like there is with a dealer FFL, so you take a bit more risk conducting a remote sale.

As long as the sale isn't taking place in MA, there isn't any issue with MA laws either. But if you're conducting the sale from within MA, even if the buyer is out of state, I'd be wary about whether that was considered a sale within MA. And you also need to be aware of state laws in the state where the gun is going.

In the end, you are far better protected by going through a dealer.
 
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By the sale taking place within Mass...do you mean physically within the borders? Like transact the sale in NH or somewhere other than Mass to avoid violating Mass Law...even though it would be within Federal law? So ship it from out of state or do an FTF if possible in another state? Would that really make a difference? Selling a C&R firearm that is "registered" via FA 10 in Mass to a C&R FFL in another state is legal by the Federal laws but not by Mass laws?? And transporting the C&R firearm to another state to make the sale makes it legal or not a violation of the Mass Gun laws? [thinking] Would location make a difference in the eyes of the state?

Either the C&R allows me to sell like I can buy or it doesn't. Why would Mass allow us to buy C&R guns and "register" them on an FA10 and not allow us to sell them via C&R??? Or if someone were to buy a C&R firearm from out of state and have it shipped to their home (all legal via C&R and the Feds) and you saying that is illegal according to Mass since they don't recognize a federal C&R as anything but a piece of paper???

Wow I might as well just not sell anything and start saving my nickels. Just doesn't seem worth the risk if I'm understanding this correctly. I know a C&R is for collectors but every collector sells something once in a while to fund something else!
 
MA doesn't care at all about your C&R, one way or the other. MA doesn't allow you to sell guns to anybody unless they are a dealer or have the proper MA resident license (or a few other obscure types of buyers), regardless of whether you or they have a C&R or not.

And yes, by physically leaving the state, you avoid MA laws.

The real question is whether by your selling and shipping a gun to an out of state person you are conducting a sale within MA jurisdiction. I don't know.
 
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A couple of things tend to confuse the issue. First, Massachusetts law doesn't care about C&R FFLs or even 01 (dealer) FFLs. Whenever Mass law refers to a licensed dealer, they mean a holder of a state license to sell firearms, not an FFL. The other thing that makes confuses things is the tendency to talk about things that Massachusetts or federal law allow. Laws don't allow anything; they prohibit or restrict certain things. Massachusetts law prohibits sale by an individual resident to another individual resident unless both are licensed properly and the seller has made no more than 3 previous private sales during the year. It says nothing about private sales to a resident of another state. Federal law, however, requires that all sales between residents of different states go through a federal licensee, i.e., an FFL.

Ken
 
KMaurer said:
First, Massachusetts law doesn't care about C&R FFLs or even 01 (dealer) FFLs.
Click to expand...

FFL dealers are specifically mentioned in a few MGLs (C. 140 § 123, § 128A, § 129C), and FFL manufacturers are mentioned in a few others (C. 140 § 131F, C. 269 § 10A). In regard to MA state laws, FFLs are legally recognized and specifically different than (though most often overlapping) MA licensed dealers.

KMaurer said:
It says nothing about private sales to a resident of another state.
Click to expand...

C. 140 § 128A makes no distinction between resident and non-resident purchasers. As a resident of MA, with some special exceptions (such as MA or FFL dealers), you may not sell any firearm to anyone who does not have a proper MA license. This precludes almost all sales to non-residents. There is some ambiguity in § 128A as to whether you could sell a rifle or shotgun to a non-resident who possesses a temporary LTC issued under § 131F, however § 131F specifically prohibits the purchase of firearms in MA with such a license. (There is some poor wording in § 131F that seems to create the possibility of a loophole, but the intent of the law is clear.)
 
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C&R bought weapon sale in MA.

Hi folks...Need some advice here...I had a C&R license and bought some weapons while I had the license....The weapons were registered in MA. when I received them....I let the C&R license lapse and no longer have a C&R license....I have a valid MA. to carry Class A...Can I sell these guns face to face to MA. residents...I have a few I want to sell......Thanks
 
jdubois said:
C. 140 § 128A makes no distinction between resident and non-resident purchasers. As a resident of MA, with some special exceptions (such as MA or FFL dealers), you may not sell any firearm to anyone who does not have a proper MA license. This precludes almost all sales to non-residents.
. . .
Click to expand...

Hi jdubois,

I don't want to stir the pot, but doesn't this then imply that a MA C&R selling to an out-of-state C&R (who would not have a MA LTC) runs afoul of MA law?

I'm not trying to disagree with any position expressed in this thread; I'm just trying to get my head to stop hurting w/r/t MA law. I know - fat chance!

-Gary
 

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