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C&R in NH buying from MA
- Thread starter OreoTSi
- Start date
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
I think they would have to do a PAPER FA10 with you as the buyer and your 03FFL number in the license space. They Electronic FA10's don't work for out of state sales to FFL's either 01 or 03
the_shootist
Banned
If I'm a NH 03FFL what do I care about FA10's?
SalemCat
Banned
Wow.
My head is exploding.
If the firearm has been registered in MA, I guess the current owner would need to file so as to get it off their list.
But finding a PAPER FA10 ? Ok, Good Luck. I've asked and no local PD ever had one.
If I were selling a C&R to NH, I'd file an Electronic FA10, record the sale in my C&R Log, and be done with it. But my C&R's are registered in MA.
If the firearm has NOT been registered in MA, it SHOULD have been. The current Owner should register it now.
Then transfer it to the NH Resident, who should just do whatever you guys are required to do - IMHO.
MOST CRITICAL: If the C&R Firearm is in the Owner's C&R LOG - it SHOULD be - record the sale THERE. The ATF C&R requirements are easy to follow. Don't get into trouble there.
AND: The NH C&R must record the purchase in their C&R Log.
Honestly, I'm confident my C&R advice is legit. But STATE LAW ? I don't know the real answer. Your local Gun Shop does not know. Your local Police Chief does not know.
My head is exploding.
If the firearm has been registered in MA, I guess the current owner would need to file so as to get it off their list.
But finding a PAPER FA10 ? Ok, Good Luck. I've asked and no local PD ever had one.
If I were selling a C&R to NH, I'd file an Electronic FA10, record the sale in my C&R Log, and be done with it. But my C&R's are registered in MA.
If the firearm has NOT been registered in MA, it SHOULD have been. The current Owner should register it now.
Then transfer it to the NH Resident, who should just do whatever you guys are required to do - IMHO.
MOST CRITICAL: If the C&R Firearm is in the Owner's C&R LOG - it SHOULD be - record the sale THERE. The ATF C&R requirements are easy to follow. Don't get into trouble there.
AND: The NH C&R must record the purchase in their C&R Log.
Honestly, I'm confident my C&R advice is legit. But STATE LAW ? I don't know the real answer. Your local Gun Shop does not know. Your local Police Chief does not know.
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MA dude can just mail it to you. You're not under any obligation to do anything. MA guy doesn't need to file paperwork because FA10 would be meaningless in this case, 'cuz he's selling to an FFL.
Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
SalemCat
Banned
I don't know NH Law, but I know ATF C&R rules. Record the purchase in your Log.
That's a good starting point.
As I understand it, the MA Resident can transport it to you and you can purchase it under your C&R. Give them a receipt or bill of sale for proof of sale and log it in your book. Nothing else is required.
I say they transport it to you because your C&R gives you no protection under MA Law.
I say they transport it to you because your C&R gives you no protection under MA Law.
I know as far as I'm concerened I would just log it like any other C&R purchase. I'm considering buying something from a friend in MA and was wondering if he had any extra requirements with the crazy MA state laws. Thanks for the help so far.
This is a ticket to nothing but TROUBLE!!
Do NOT do this or you may get some visitors you don't want at both ends of the transaction.
Easiest/cleanest way to do this is the owner brings (or ships via UPS/FedEx 2-day Air) the gun to the NH C&R FFL. NH guy gives copy of C&R FFL and Bill of Sale (not required but good idea) to MA guy and the NH guy just records it in his BB with ID info on seller. IF MA guy wants to get it out of his name, he must do a paper FA-10 only (eFA-10 will NOT accept FFL # of any sort) BUT unless he can do it without it looking like a FTF private sale between 2 people who live in different states (a federal felony) I would skip it and avoid visits from unfriendlies looking to jack you up. Finding one is equal to finding a unicorn under your bed. Thus, MA guy can call it a day with his bill of sale and C&R FFL info stapled to his original FA-10 from when he bought it . . . it'll always be in his name as far as MA is concerned however.
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Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
Len is correct in that most 03FFL's don't have "business names" just personal names so it can look like a FTF interstate which would raise a red flag.
This all has raised my concern as well. As a C&R myself, if selling online, I assume I can ship in-state and out-of-state to another C&R. However, if they do not have a C&R, I ship directly to their FFL? Or do I need a local FFL to ship? Either way I do an electronic FA-10 transfer and log the sale in the BB.
If I am wrong here, please advise.
Also, where are the seminars located?
We are talking about rifles, no hand guns.
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Seminar schedule can be found here: http://2atraining.weebly.com/
MA law doesn't "go away" because two people have C&R FFLs, no you can not ship in-state to another C&R due to our laws. You must do the eFA-10 just like it wasn't a C&R gun.
Out of state, if the person is a C&R FFL you can ship direct C&R to C&R (assuming gun is C&R). It is not possible in this situation to do an eFA-10, you would have to do it on paper and that is damn near impossible too.
If the buyer is not in MA and doesn't have a C&R FFL, yes you ship to their dealer FFL, again same as any non-C&R transfer out of state. Once again, eFA-10 is not possible.
BB entries for all C&R transactions is required by BATFE.
None of the above is any different for long guns vs. handguns.
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
According to Michaela of the FRB, I talked to her in person on Saturday, if your chief requests PAPER FA10's they will send some to them and then you can do the paper FA10.
I personally am down to about 10 left.
I would recommend that everyone go to their chief and request them to order some and then keep them on hand, that is what I did.
ASIDE: I had a guy come up to me at the gun show Saturday and swear to me that as a C&R there are 3 FULLY-AUTOMATIC weapons you can buy and keep in your house but not carry all without an NFA or whatever the federal machine gun license is, I told him I didn't think so and he got real hot about it.
I personally am down to about 10 left.
I would recommend that everyone go to their chief and request them to order some and then keep them on hand, that is what I did.
ASIDE: I had a guy come up to me at the gun show Saturday and swear to me that as a C&R there are 3 FULLY-AUTOMATIC weapons you can buy and keep in your house but not carry all without an NFA or whatever the federal machine gun license is, I told him I didn't think so and he got real hot about it.
"MA law doesn't "go away" because two people have C&R FFLs, no you can not ship in-state to another C&R due to our laws. You must do the eFA-10 just like it wasn't a C&R gun."So all C&R sales within the State must be face to face, or shipped FFL to FFL? Sorry, just trying to sort this all out before I get ahead of myself.
Also, if you ship a C&R handgun the carriers all require you to use next day air service which costs a fortune. You're actually better off having an FFL dealer ship it for you since they can use priority mail flat rate boxes which ends up cheaper even after paying their transfer fee.
Except certain oddball transactions can NOT be reported thru the portal due to the way the portal was designed. I had hopes that they would have changed the software, but no dice.
FA-10/MA legal bullshit = Not your problem. At all. Have him bring the guns to you in NH, Log them in. Done. Give him a bill of sale if he wants it for his records. (or even cares, it's gonna be documented in his BB anyways).
-Mike
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45collector
NES Member
It surprises you that a firearms transaction system implemented by the MA.gov doesn't work correctly?
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
And I still find it outrageous that the head of the FRB is telling people to do things contrary to the law.
Given that S128A/B is a stupid law that almost nobody cares about, it doesn't surprise me. Also given that the puppeteer upstairs pulling her strings (same people pulling guidas strings when he was there) it doesn't surprise me, either. Gun owners have always pretty much been wedged into a "best effort" type of compliance mode since this E-FA-10 crap came into existence.
-Mike
It surprises you that a firearms transaction system implemented by the MA.gov doesn't work correctly?
It's true. I tried to record a transfer online, and it will not accept an out of state ID number. I had to find the elusive paper FA-10 and file.
Depending on how you fill out a form/e-form, you could invite a visit from local PD along with BATFE looking to jam you up. I teach people to be very careful how they use the system and why, to be legal but avoid potential snakepits.
