Bulk ammo sourced locally?

[mac1911]

Has mat is a flat fee it will cover anything that ships from envelope to pallet.

For the most part ups and FedEx ground limits package size and weight... the total weight is something like 75# before it needs to be shipped freight.

So it's to your advantage to order the largest amount your vendor will put into one box.
One vendor I use only will put 4 8# jugs per box another does 6 8# jugs or any size combination up to the Box and weight limit.

Unless things changed since April primers and powder can be shipped in same box.

Also some distributors deliver goods in their own vehicles so they don't need a hazmat charge.
JSC , camfour and JS whole sale deliver their own stuff....or used to last I knew. Some charge a fee depending on order amount some have a weekly or by weekly drop off. Some need a minimum order to deliver at all.

The club's order for clay targets, lead shot, powder, primers and other ammo if they have it delivery is based on a,percentage of the bill with discounts at $10, 15, 20 25k plus 10 pallets of clays a pallet or 2 of shotshell ,pellets and what ever powder 10k is,not hard to do.....I think it's a 6% charge for delivery.

It's all fun and each business can decide if it's worth their effort to please a customer.

Yes it's hard to get to decent price point breaks for some items but I got this thing nagging at me that if your wholesale distributors prices can't beat some of the mom and pop retail on line vendors out there are they really wholesale prices your getting?

It's tough and as a worker in a small 4 person business it is hard to compete $ for $ BUT I can tell you if someone comes and and said XYZ said they don't or couldn't get ABC we make an attempt to see IF we can get it. Then give them a price. More times than not they are happy to get it even if it is 33$ vs 26.50$

I think the key thing most miss is small shops can't stock every powder especially those buying 1lb jugs and 1k primers here and there.
They definitely can't offer a good deal if you want them to order in few lbs and few thousand primers on your demand.

Here is an example shipping from one vendor for 5 8lb jugs and 5k primers was 28$ plus 27.50 for haz mat
Same vendor it would cost 28$ hazmat and 15$ shipping for 2 1# jugs and 2k primers.
Although at some prices out there that's still not bad!

 

[84ta406]

I think it comes down to the profit margins being so small that most shops dont want to bother. Why go through all the hoops for only a couple bucks in the register. With the pricing I get I could make a profit selling just powder, primers and projectiles, however it would be a lot of money out there for little gains and the risks are high.

For example I get HS6, CFE pistol, HP38, all the usual powders for about 17.50 per lb before shipping. I imagine after shipping and hazmat youll be into it for about 20, sell for 25 and I bet they move all day. But to make it worth it you need order a full load and then have to watch all the storage laws and such.

 

[drgrant]

I agree but some things are done just to bring customers in. Like the lottery. All places carry it to get customers in there to buy the stuff they can make a profit on and do. Not everthing has to be a home run and I certainly dont mind paying more money for the convenience of knowing I can get what I am looking for. If the price is to steep then you can say no but at least make the offer to get it.

Except that the people that want this stuff are like 5% of the shooting public. The lottery thing is a bad analogy; One of my customers is a liquor store on the north shore... He hates the ****ing lottery; but he has to have it; because if he doesn't have it, a healthy chunk of his customer base will go somewhere else, they want to buy all that shit at one time. That's not really true of reloading components at all.

Some of the small shops I know that have reloading stuff, most of it sits on the shelf... and sits and sits... and it's priced within a couple bucks of the market floor. He only gets cleaned out if there is a panic, which is hardly a reliable business model. I'll tell you why that is- most reloaders, as a demographic, the predominant motto is "Buy it cheap stack it deep". These guys order their supplies in maybe, 1-3 orders a year and then they're done for the year. There are some of us that buy at random odd intervals but this behavior, again, only ramps up during supply droughts. When the market is flush again these guys go back to buying in bulk, teaming up with friends etc, to get the cost down. A bunch of reloaders will tell you they don't do it to save money, but that is partly a crock of shit; there's always calculations that go on to try to optimize the amount of production they get from a chunk of change they're willing to spend on materials. They might not be "saving money" strictly speaking, but they're trying to optimize output by getting the desired materials as cheaply as possible. This means that even when reloaders are buying shit at retail, they go to the place with the cheapest price... and smaller gun shops can't compete with that. Reloading stuff sits on the shelf and collects dust at smaller gun shops when no panic is occurring, or at least that's what I've seen.

Don't get me wrong... I wish the stuff was more available; but the economics of the market don't really allow for it at current.

-Mike

 

[mac1911]

Except that the people that want this stuff are like 5% of the shooting public. The lottery thing is a bad analogy; One of my customers is a liquor store on the north shore... He hates the ****ing lottery; but he has to have it; because if he doesn't have it, a healthy chunk of his customer base will go somewhere else, they want to buy all that shit at
one time. That's not really true of reloading components at all.

Some of the small shops I know that have reloading stuff, most of it sits on the shelf... and sits and sits... and it's priced within a couple bucks of the market floor. He only gets cleaned out if there is a panic, which is hardly a reliable business model. I'll tell you why that is- most reloaders, as a demographic, the predominant motto is "Buy it cheap stack it deep". These guys order their supplies in maybe, 1-3 orders a year and then they're done for the year. There are some of us that buy at random odd intervals but this behavior, again, only ramps up during supply droughts. When the market is flush again these guys go back to buying in bulk, teaming up with friends etc, to get the cost down. A bunch of reloaders will tell you they don't do it to save money, but that is partly a crock of shit; there's always calculations that go on to try to optimize the amount of production they get from a chunk of change they're willing to spend on materials. They might not be "saving money" strictly speaking, but they're trying to optimize output by getting the desired materials as cheaply as possible. This means that even when reloaders are buying shit at retail, they go to the place with the cheapest price... and smaller gun shops can't compete with that. Reloading stuff sits on the shelf and collects dust at smaller gun shops when no panic is occurring, or at least that's what I've seen.

-Mike

I think you nailed the group buyers club thing. Although getting a little chunk of those group buyers is not a bad thing if the shop can do it right and work with the group...
Your correct little group I deal with we do 2-4 larger orders a year then a supplement here and there.
We could get some better prices also if we had a FFL to ship to.

From April of 2015- June 2016 we had 2 large orders between 10 people and 4 smaller orders just under 6k .....so there's not a shop out there that wants to take a percentage or fee for accepting the delivery and calling us....

 

[DW357]

there's not a shop out there that wants to take a percentage or fee for accepting the delivery and calling us....

I'm not sure I understand the advantage here (it is late and my brain may be cooked from work today)? Why would we need to use a dealer when we can just order the stuff ourselves and have it held at the local fedex facility?? That's all I've ever done with reloading component orders.

 

[DW357]

Except that the people that want this stuff are like 5% of the shooting public. The lottery thing is a bad analogy; One of my customers is a liquor store on the north shore... He hates the ****ing lottery; but he has to have it; because if he doesn't have it, a healthy chunk of his customer base will go somewhere else, they want to buy all that shit at one time. That's not really true of reloading components at all.

Some of the small shops I know that have reloading stuff, most of it sits on the shelf... and sits and sits... and it's priced within a couple bucks of the market floor. He only gets cleaned out if there is a panic, which is hardly a reliable business model. I'll tell you why that is- most reloaders, as a demographic, the predominant motto is "Buy it cheap stack it deep". These guys order their supplies in maybe, 1-3 orders a year and then they're done for the year. There are some of us that buy at random odd intervals but this behavior, again, only ramps up during supply droughts. When the market is flush again these guys go back to buying in bulk, teaming up with friends etc, to get the cost down. A bunch of reloaders will tell you they don't do it to save money, but that is partly a crock of shit; there's always calculations that go on to try to optimize the amount of production they get from a chunk of change they're willing to spend on materials. They might not be "saving money" strictly speaking, but they're trying to optimize output by getting the desired materials as cheaply as possible. This means that even when reloaders are buying shit at retail, they go to the place with the cheapest price... and smaller gun shops can't compete with that. Reloading stuff sits on the shelf and collects dust at smaller gun shops when no panic is occurring, or at least that's what I've seen.

Don't get me wrong... I wish the stuff was more available; but the economics of the market don't really allow for it at current.

-Mike

As long as I can beat and/or match local shop pricing by ordering online, I'll be happy and makes it worthwhile. I don't try to get primers for $27 per 1k. If I can get them at or under $35 per 1k for example (what NH shops usually charge) then I consider it a good deal. I will say that I do try to support shops that carry reloading supplies but many times they don't have what I want so I'm forced to order online (Alliant powders for example).

Why would I order 2k primers and 2 pounds of powder online without asking other reloaders to join in and ease the hazmat/shipping?
But anyway, you pretty much nailed everything else. Just wanted to clarify my view on it (not like anyone really gives a shit lol).

 

[mac1911]

I'm not sure I understand the advantage here (it is late and my brain may be cooked from work today)? Why would we need to use a dealer when we can just order the stuff ourselves and have it held at the local fedex facility?? That's all I've ever done with reloading component orders.

I was thinking more on the lines of "ship to MA " issues. There are many vendors that will only ship to FFL with a business tax I'd. I can order stuff from XXX but they will only ship to FFL .
So even if the dealer says I will charge 20$ a box or 10% of the order,or what ever it's still much cheaper than most shops can provide.
Trying to sell us stuff off the shelf.
Let's just say my online order is 1000$ shipped and to buy it locally with tax and Mark up its 1350$ would paying 100$ to have what you need in the amount you want be worth 100$.... for me yes.
Saving 100$ might not seem like much to some but it is to me.
Is making 100$ here and there not enough for dealers? I don't know.
We make shit plugging tires but we still do it.

Ex we have a 2 man shop not far from ours. They pay us a small fee have their order shipped to us.
So for simply having the tires shipped to us we make lunch money with nothing more than a phone call.

 

[BigMoby]

I was thinking more on the lines of "ship to MA " issues. There are many vendors that will only ship to FFL with a business tax I'd. I can order stuff from XXX but they will only ship to FFL .
So even if the dealer says I will charge 20$ a box or 10% of the order,or what ever it's still much cheaper than most shops can provide.
Trying to sell us stuff off the shelf.
Let's just say my online order is 1000$ shipped and to buy it locally with tax and Mark up its 1350$ would paying 100$ to have what you need in the amount you want be worth 100$.... for me yes.
Saving 100$ might not seem like much to some but it is to me.
Is making 100$ here and there not enough for dealers? I don't know.
We make shit plugging tires but we still do it.

Ex we have a 2 man shop not far from ours. They pay us a small fee have their order shipped to us.
So for simply having the tires shipped to us we make lunch money with nothing more than a phone call.

Yah, I am in mass so that is the real issue. If I could just order online and pay the hazmat and shipping for what I wanted I'd be happy as shit. Must be nice living in free state ordering what you want and getting it shipped right to your door.

 

[mac1911]

Yah, I am in mass so that is the real issue. If I could just order online and pay the hazmat and shipping for what I wanted I'd be happy as shit. Must be nice living in free state ordering what you want and getting it shipped right to your door.

yeah you need to develop a network of others who want to reload and purchase in bulk. Aslo finding folks in free states helps also or have a someone in your loop that travels often to free states.
We have a guy at the club who goes to NH for his cheap booze and smokes every other month or so. He will go to the 2 shops near his stop in NH and buy cases of ammo for us for a small fee. its usually still cheaper and you can but more than a few boxes! last trip up he picked up 9 cases of assorted ammo and only charged us 50$ he will pick up 15 cases if they have it.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Dealing with reloaders as a group, is similar to herding cats. That group, if you could categorize, are the cheapest SOB's on the planet. It's a reverse dick size challenge thing, my reloads are cheaper than your reloads. Just picture the price savings in 1# retail vs. 8# jugs from xxxxxxxxxxx for 9MM. OOH! 2 cents apiece vs. 11/2 cents apiece. Think of it, 25 cents a box savings just in powder alone. Shoot a box a week and you just saved enough in a year for a free McDonald's trip.

I heartily recommend auctions, certain yard sales and the bargain table at some LGS's. Then allow the force to be with you. Want 231 but all you got was AA2 from Fred getting out of reloading? So what. It's not like you came to the only correct decision extant. Same with bullets, brass or primers. They all, within reason, work. The usual avowed reason for reloading is to save money. Right. Tell me again why I have xxx #'s of powder, 18 tons of bullets and xxx thousand primers on hand. Because I'm a By God cheap ass reloader, that's why. A year+ or so ago, I bought 80 pounds of powder for WELL under $1,000.
None were what I was looking for. But if I didn't buy it someone else would have. Never look a gift horse in the mouth.