Any useful sources or links to clarify legality of SBR in MA?

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Rader

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My CLEO will not sign my form 1 because be believes that it would be illegal for me to build / posses a registered ATF Form 1 SBR.

They sent me a nice letter where he mentions that because the weapon in question "is not an approved firearm on the Mass Executive Office of Public Safety roster" and because it would have a barrel less than 16" "it is a "firearm" rather than a "rifle" as defined by chapter 140 section 121. As such different and more stringent assault weapons regulations would now apply in the state of MA and therefore would be in violation of MA Law."

I double checked these sections and either something's changed since the last update to the online MGL or they just aren't interpreting anything remotely the way the state actually does? And I'm also under the impression the Roster only has to do with handguns?

I have an excellent understand of the MA AWB and planned on building a compliant SBR.

I don't think they are blowing smoke, I honestly believe they'd just never seen a form 1 before, no one seemed familiar with anything in relation to class 3 NFA stuff. I want to put together some information to preset to the chief to show him that it is in fact legal for me to build and posses an SBR (I have an unrestricted class A).

If anyone has any helpful sources of information, or case law, that can aid me I'd be very grateful. I know I can go the trust route, I just am trying to have some faith in my local law enforcement that they really may not understand the laws. I don't want the chief to think that I would waste his time having something put on his desk that wasn't legal.

Any help is appreciated, this is my first attempt at doing any NFA paperwork, I know a lot of you guys have been into this stuff forever.
 
I consulted an Attorney friend, who said that there was no harm in requesting a meeting with the chief to discuss the issue. He just recommended that if it became obvious that the Chief had no intentions of acknowledging an error or misunderstanding to let it go without upsetting anyone and move on with a trust.
 
get a trust, build SBR. **** tha police.

title II firearms are not defined in the MGLs since they are too awesome to be contained.

the tl;dr of this is that (IANAL) title II firearms don't even meet the MA definition of "rifle" and then are exempt from the AWB to boot. just because it's not discussed in the MGLs does NOT make it illegal.

do a trust, build your rifle, send pics to the CLEO.
 
Isn't it a bigger problem for the OP if the chief in his town has told him in no uncertain terms that an SBR is illegal, and then discovers that the OP possesses one? What I am saying is that it could result in an arrest, that might prove quite costly in more than one way, could it not?
 
The Approved Firearms Roster only applies to what a dealer can sell, and not what an individual can make and/or possess, so even though an SBR may be a "Firearm" according to chapter 140 section 121, it doesn't matter that your SBR isn't on the Roster.

The AWB question as it applies to SBRs is an interesting one, and does not have a definitive answer in MA. The MA AWB references the Federal AWB as of September 13, 1994 for its definition of "Assault Weapon". The Federal AWB defined Assault Weapon in terms of semiautomatic Rifles, Pistols, and Shotguns, with different criteria for each. The question is whether the Federal definition of "Rifle" or "Pistol" should be applied to an SBR. Your police chief's argument is that the MA definition of "Firearm" is functionally equivalent to "Pistol", and so the Pistol rules should apply. The other (more logical) argument is that Federal law defines an SBR as a Rifle (it is, after all, a Short Barreled Rifle), and so the Rifle rules should apply. In other words, since MA referenced the Federal AWB, the Federal rules for what constitutes a "Rifle", "Pistol", and "Shotgun" should apply in regards to the AWB.

The reason this is so important is because for a Pistol, an AW is anything with two or more of the following:
Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

So, pretty much any SBR is going to be an AW if the Pistol definition is applied, which is what your police chief is arguing. Of course, plenty of people in MA have had SBR Form 1s approved, so the ATF seems to disagree with your police chief's interpretation. If your chief is unwilling to sign the Form 1, get a Trust and go that route. Do it quickly, because there is a proposed rule change that would require people with Trusts to get CLEO signoff.
 
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he can TRY to push that, but the fact of the matter is that by the MA legal definitions it's neither a pistol nor is it a rifle.

and yes, he COULD arrest you, but then you could sue the everloving SHIT out of the PD. it would take time and money, but it's a case you'd win.
 
atilla said:
he can TRY to push that, but the fact of the matter is that by the MA legal definitions it's neither a pistol nor is it a rifle.

and yes, he COULD arrest you, but then you could sue the everloving SHIT out of the PD. it would take time and money, but it's a case you'd win.
Click to expand...

Amusingly, this has been put forward as an argument for the AWB not applying to SBRs at all. Since an SBR is a "Firearm" according to MA law, and the Federal AWB does't define features that make a "Firearm" an AW, an SBR cannot be an AW at all!

I don't really think the argument holds water, but it is interesting, nonetheless.
 
neva been dun befo. (in court that is)

i was moving ahead with my SBR and it would have been evil and kill-y, but then i moved. so now it's normal.
 
Right, but I'd really prefer to avoid having to transfer all my firearms to a dealer while I wait potentially years to be absolved of a felony charge that even though I know is bogus will cost me thousands and cause me severe stress. I'm a 26 year old working class guy. I don't have the time or resources to want to deal with a felony charge because my CLEO might feel like making a point to the good towns folk that he's tough on guns. After all it could be "for da chidren"?

I just want to try and sit down and lay it out as best I can. Either way it could really be helpful for them to understand that people legally possessing registered SBR's aren't felons.
 
Rader said:
Right, but I'd really prefer to avoid having to transfer all my firearms to a dealer while I wait potentially years to be absolved of a felony charge that even though I know is bogus will cost me thousands and cause me severe stress. I'm a 26 year old working class guy. I don't have the time or resources to want to deal with a felony charge because my CLEO might feel like making a point to the good towns folk that he's tough on guns. After all it could be "for da chidren"?

I just want to try and sit down and lay it out as best I can. Either way it could really be helpful for them to understand that people legally possessing registered SBR's aren't felons.
Click to expand...

Here is a link to the text of the Federal AWB:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c103:1:./temp/~c10394e1iU:e644150:

Here is the Federal definition of a "pistol":
Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as:
… a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).
Click to expand...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html

Here is the Federal definition of a "rifle:
(7) The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

Here is the MA definition of an Assault Weapon:
“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994...
Click to expand...
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

Some more research will show that SBRs were treated as Rifles under the Federal AWB. If all of that combined is not enough to convince your CLEO, then he cannot be convinced.
 
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sounds like he's the type of dude who doesn't care and will be insulted and defensive if a mere peon dares to tell him he's wrong with his personal interpretation of the lawr.
 
atilla said:
sounds like he's the type of dude who doesn't care and will be insulted and defensive if a mere peon dares to tell him he's wrong with his personal interpretation of the lawr.
Click to expand...
I'll never know if I don't try. Like I said I honestly think they might just have no idea when it comes to NFA stuff. So it's at least worth sitting down as talking about it. Worst case I wasted a few hours doing more research and 10 minutes of his time.
 
JCV said:
What city?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I wanna say solely for the reason that I have no idea who is reading the Internet and I really am not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers. AFTER I meet with the CLEO and have an outcome I wouldn't have a problem saying where.
 
mlaboss said:
Amusingly, this has been put forward as an argument for the AWB not applying to SBRs at all. Since an SBR is a "Firearm" according to MA law, and the Federal AWB does't define features that make a "Firearm" an AW, an SBR cannot be an AW at all!

I don't really think the argument holds water, but it is interesting, nonetheless.
Click to expand...

I get what your saying, but an AW by definition is a semi auto weapon capable of accepting a detachable magazine, which an AR15 SBR is. IANAL but seems like an extremely grey area, and possibly turn out to be a long costly battle in court.
 
rkwjunior said:
I get what your saying, but an AW by definition is a semi auto weapon capable of accepting a detachable magazine, which an AR15 SBR is. IANAL but seems like an extremely grey area, and possibly turn out to be a long costly battle in court.
Click to expand...

yes, and there is no case law on either side. you might not want to take that risk. my SBR would have been in "post-ban" configuration had i stayed in MA.
 
atilla said:
yes, and there is no case law on either side. you might not want to take that risk. my SBR would have been in "post-ban" configuration had i stayed in MA.
Click to expand...

Ditto (except I'm still in MA). I'm going with the "it's a rifle" interpretation, so it'll have a fixed stock, no bayo lug, and a comp.
 

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