Any AOW’s allowed in MA that utilize.308?

[DJBrad]

I’m looking at a pistol carbine that would be legal. Would prefer a non-pinned or detachable mag. 10” barrel or less. If I have to build one I would be open to that. I’ve read through the AR pistol thread but find myself short on part knowledge. Since I build so many other things and have been too busy I would rather just purchase straight out. I would prefer .308 or even .300aac as this ammo is easiest to obtain locally. Thanks!

 

[DJBrad]

After some research it seems I am looking for an ar pistol and that this route is still grey in terms of the law. I don’t think I want to be the lightning rod.

 

[white feather]

Get a Kel Tec RFB...

 

[CrackPot]

After some research it seems I am looking for an ar pistol and that this route is still grey in terms of the law. I don’t think I want to be the lightning rod.

Ar pistol is not grey. With a detachable magazine it is black. It is an assault weapon. With a fixed mag it is white.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

What the purpose of your firearm?

If you go bolt action and build from scratch you're not in "assault weapon" territory regardless of features/weight.

You can buy a virgin Remington 700 action for $200-$400, and build an XP style pistol in .308 but with a mag and modern features.

 

[DJBrad]

Thanks for your responses gents as I appreciate it. I feel like I’ve warped into the future where everything is not so bright and joyous. I’ve been at a long term firearm hiatus and don’t know the laws too well but I’ve reading up voraciously.

Crackpot and Frizzle I’ve seen your posts alot.

I prefer semi-full-auto...lol


I would like to avoid a bolt action, lever, pump, as I have plans for those.

You can buy a virgin Remington 700 action for $200-$400, and build an XP style pistol in .308 but with a mag and modern features.

Frizzle, you got me interested, please elaborate more.

Crack pot, I know you build so send me pm’s on what you do.

 

[DJBrad]

Get a Kel Tec RFB...

I’ve seen those and many videos on ‘em. For the $1400+range it seems it bit expensive and bulkier than I’d like. In a perfect world I would take the PLR-16 for it’s form factor.

 

[DJBrad]

And Frizzle, the purpose is target and hunting with the punch that .308 affords.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Frizzle, you got me interested, please elaborate more.

So if you're looking for a pocket cannon with no stock, that is, a pistol, you're stuck buying off the MA roster from a dealer or using one of the other methods.

There aren't any pocket cannons on the MA roster really other than the S&W 500 which is a pistol caliber.

If you get a virgin reciever (never built as a rifle, otherwise you're not making a pistol but an unregistered SBR) designed like a rifle you can build a pistol from it perfectly legally; the problem is that if it's "full-semi-auto" and has a detachable magazine, you have to worry about the Assault Weapon Ban and its rules on pistols. If you build bolt, lever, or slide action, there's no restriction on weight, having a magazine outside the grip, or having a shroud on the barrel because it's exempt from the AWB.

Remington used to make a single shot bolt action pistol in rifle calibers called the XP100:

Some people have modernized the idea somewhat:

I'm thinking you build a modern XP with a magazine and some fancy new tricks.

Spend $200-$400 on a virgin Remington 700 reciever from Brownells or similar, there's aftermarket options too, and build a pistol with an internal magazine or a detachable box magazine (using the Magpul mag well and trigger guard maybe?). I say 700 because there are a lot of great actions, but the 700 is easy to work with and has a lot of neat aftermarket parts available cheap. Get a Choate stock, or a thumbhole, anything with a pistol grip and just cut off the 'stock' part and shorten the forend a bit. Or use a factory stock and bolt a pistol grip on there. Grab a cheap used barrel, cut it down, crown it, and you're off to the races.



The other option is to scratch-build an AR10 pistol with a fixed mag, or buy a fixed mag lower from one of the MA dealers who makes them and build it up. If it comes from the factory (or your workshop) with a fixed mag it is not an "assault weapon" by law or Mad Maura's definition... and Mean Arms makes a speedloader/clip system that works with AR10s in .308 nicely. Keep in mind that AR10 builds are a little more involved than AR15 builds; there are 2 totally different sets of specs, and parts from different MFGs are far less likely to line up even if built to the same spec.

 

[DJBrad]

Good options and I like the idea of the Rem 700; very unique. Of course the detached mag must be 10 or less I suppose.

 

[DJBrad]

Is there such an option as a slide action though?

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Is there such an option as a slide action though?

There is, even slide action AR15s and AR10s though I've never seen it done with a pistol personally, just rifles.

I had a slide kit that used any old upper/lower during the ban; was made in Australia and was a little rattley but totally functional. Essentially it replaced the gas tube with a rod to manually push the BCG back, big delrin grip/pump handle that went over a bull barrel, and a big spring behind it against the barrel nut. Ugly but functional. Perhaps there's something similar on the market now? If there isn't, it shouldn't be too hard to make.

And yeah you're at 10rd or less. Unless you get something that uses prebans of course... which an AR15-style slide action pistol build chambered in 300blk and shooting supersonic loads would be. Unfortunately not many 10+ magazines that are pre94 and fit AICS pattern mag wells. Even post ban mags for the 700 are expensive.

 

[whatluck]

I dont see the advantage of 308 in a short barrel. Arent you looking at 180 grain at less than 2k fps? Seems like you could alot better with 460mag.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

I dont see the advantage of 308 in a short barrel. Arent you looking at 180 grain at less than 2k fps? Seems like you could alot better with 460mag.

At 12" or 14" you're looking at 2200-2500fps. I think (could be wrong) he's looking for affordable and readily available ammo, maybe caliber conservation?

 

[white feather]

Kel Tec RFB is just over 26" long with an 18" barrel and takes preban 20 round metric FAL mags and is semi automatic... not that I don't love xp pistols and Remington 700s but to build the pistol above will cost more than the RFB. Collectors just sold a .308 xp-100 too...

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Kel Tec RFB is just over 26" long with an 18" barrel and takes preban 20 round metric FAL mags and is semi automatic... not that I don't love xp pistols and Remington 700s but to build the pistol above will cost more than the RFB. Collectors just sold a .308 xp-100 too...

Call me crazy but an RFB lists at like $2k and sells for $1.5k right? Without an optic?

Building an XP pistol would cost <$800 with a half decent donor rifle. Blood sweat and tears extra of course.

RFBs are great rifles though. Could do a fixed AR10 build under $1000 too.

 

[amm5061]

Could do a fixed AR10 build under $1000 too.

Yup. My fixed AR-15 was stupid cheap. All the parts were on sale/clearance except for the fixed lower and I got great deals on everything. The lower was even reasonable, since I went with a billet DSI lower instead of the much more expensive forged option everyone else picked. No reason why you couldn't do the same for an AR .308.

I've had the idea of an AR .308 SBR stuck in my head for awhile. I can't justify it, given it would make more sense to SBR my .458 SOCOM.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Yup. My fixed AR-15 was stupid cheap.

I don't even want to tell you what my last fixed 300blk pistol cost, but suffice it to say when you cast your own lower and buy quality parts when they're on sale, it's cheaper than dinner for two at some Boston restaurants. Even from an 80%er you're talking short, short money.

 

[DJBrad]

Great info and ideas so far guys. I’m musing over all this. AR .308 build for less than $1k would be awesome.

 

[white feather]

I find it amazing and sad that people on this forum are arguing for a fixed ten round rifle because it is cheaper. Skinflints gonna skinflint I guess...

 

[Frizzle Fry]

I find it amazing and sad that people on this forum are arguing for a fixed ten round rifle because it is cheaper. Skinflints gonna skinflint I guess...

He's looking to hunt, primarily, so I guess I don't see the problem with a fixed mag.

Lot of miles between "skinflint" and "doesn't have an extra $2k floating around for a rifle and optic".

Paying $600-700 for an 80% AR10 where you can swap the lower if you move to a free state, not bad.

 

[amm5061]

I find it amazing and sad that people on this forum are arguing for a fixed ten round rifle because it is cheaper. Skinflints gonna skinflint I guess...

Literally no one said it's cheaper. You can expensive the f*** out of a fixed mag build, just like a manual action build or anything else.

The fact that availability of parts and sales gives you options to build one with quality parts for short money does not make you a skinflint.

 

[67ray]

Don't forget you can buy a preban lower multi caliber and then turn it into a pistol legally.

 

[92G]

if it's a fun project then sure whatever floats the boat but from functional perspective i'm not following the logic on a short barrel 308. it's going to have a lot of blast as well.

my RFB is a pretty nifty 308 bullpup. out of the box it had all sorts of issues so took a trip back to Kel-Tec. it took them nearly 3 months to get it back to me but now it runs perfectly. I find Kelt-Tec as a company straight up depressing: they have these phenomenally unique designs then put them into production with the shittiest materials only to be out done by even shittier customer service. they play all sorts of games with their warranty technicalities as if it should matter. they're almost as shady as Sig Sauer.

the RFB is quirky both in design and function. given the unorthodox method of extraction and completely enclosed action I would never consider it an option for defensive or duty purposes. in event of stoppage it takes way too long to diagnose and clear. there are those who freak out about having a 308 chamber right below their face but the same people shoot M1A's or M1 garands with exposed rotating bolt actions right in front of their face. i've seen enough reports of M1 garands go boom and it isn't pretty. on the other hand the RFB has two thick layers of steel surrounding the ejection port. if there were a blow out or bolt failure it would most likely destroy the magazine/mag-catch and vent downward.

if i were currently in the market for a short OAL rifle in 308 I would just keep sipping on the coffee and wait for the Tavor 7.

 

[amm5061]

Don't forget you can buy a preban lower multi caliber and then turn it into a pistol legally.

Woah hold up there. You can only do that if the lower was originally a pistol. You can't go from what was originally a rifle to a pistol, that's no bueno to the ATF. Most pre-bans started life out as a rifle, so it's very unlikely you're going to find a virgin or pistol receiver to do it with.

 

[hv55maxx]

if it's a fun project then sure whatever floats the boat but from functional perspective i'm not following the logic on a short barrel 308. it's going to have a lot of blast as well.

my RFB is a pretty nifty 308 bullpup. out of the box it had all sorts of issues so took a trip back to Kel-Tec. it took them nearly 3 months to get it back to me but now it runs perfectly. I find Kelt-Tec as a company straight up depressing: they have these phenomenally unique designs then put them into production with the shittiest materials only to be out done by even shittier customer service. they play all sorts of games with their warranty technicalities as if it should matter. they're almost as shady as Sig Sauer.

the RFB is quirky both in design and function. given the unorthodox method of extraction and completely enclosed action I would never consider it an option for defensive or duty purposes. in event of stoppage it takes way too long to diagnose and clear. there are those who freak out about having a 308 chamber right below their face but the same people shoot M1A's or M1 garands with exposed rotating bolt actions right in front of their face. i've seen enough reports of M1 garands go boom and it isn't pretty. on the other hand the RFB has two thick layers of steel surrounding the ejection port. if there were a blow out or bolt failure it would most likely destroy the magazine/mag-catch and vent downward.

if i were currently in the market for a short OAL rifle in 308 I would just keep sipping on the coffee and wait for the Tavor 7.

I have an AR10 upper that is a 12.5" 358 winchester barrel and a 4" Alumalite muzzle brake. I just use a much faster burning powder when i reload it. No chrono so no data but I killed a bear with it in September. Throw practicality out the window.