AN ACT requiring background checks for all firearm sales. NH HB1589

The committee Chair clearly wants to pass something. He did not have the votes today to pass the bill (Several members of his caucus were absent)

The current status is there will be a new sub committee hearing on Thursday, the bill will have another executive session on Tuesday next week.

The Frustrating part was the Committee Chair showed no respect for the 25+ citizens who took time off of work and showed up for the exec session, all of whom were wearing bright yellow ITL HB1589 stickers. He blew them off and did what he wanted, showing no respect for process or for the constitutional rights he is determined to take away.


keep calling

Design
 
The subcommittee meeting for this bill now has a time!


Thursday, January 30 at 12PM in Room 302.

This hearing is open to the public and you can speak! So please do so.

25 people showed up to the hearing today and this one was such that no one would speak!

The chair canceled the meeting because supposedly and another amendment was filed late and it needs to be addressed in a subcommittee meeting.

Supposedly this amendment contains something "we will like". A compromise if you will.

Frankly I say bullshit. NO COMPROMISE. I am done "compromising."

Someone taped the session today. It was very short.

[video=youtube_share;qidPo46sHhw]http://youtu.be/qidPo46sHhw[/video]
 
Video of the "session..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qidPo46sHhw&feature=youtu.be

And the BS continues...
The chair tramples the rights of the citizens under the guise of "it needs to be considered further"

Call him. The line goes to the front desk so you can call all day long to let this guy know how you feel about him taking away your gun rights.
Phone: (603)374-6131


Representative Edward Butler (d)
Carroll- District 07
Seat #:2042
Former
Home Address:
2 Morey Rd
Harts Location, NH 03812-4105
Phone: (603)374-6131
Email: [email protected]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qidPo46sHhw&feature=youtu.be
 
Latest NHFC letter:,

Dear Gun Owner,

NHFC Vice President Scott Krauss and I have been warning you about HB 1589, "sell a gun to a friend go to jail". I want to take a few minutes to give you an update on the bill and to let you know how we are working hard to defeat it.

Yesterday, we expected the House Commerce and Consumer Affairs Committee to hold an "Executive Session" to either vote the bill "ought to pass" or "inexpedient to legislate", (ITL). But Committee Chairman Rep. Ed Butler decided to manipulate the proceedings in an attempt to salvage a very anti gun bill and silence to opposition.

My State House sources have told me that instead of calling the "Executive Session" to order, Rep. Butler announced that committee would not be voting on HB 1589 and would hold a sub-committee work session on Thursday, January 30 to study another amendment that was submitted. He also said that the full committee would vote on HB 1589 on Tuesday, February 4.

Over the weekend, Scott explained that the first amendment proposed by Rep. Butler would commission a biased study of the gun registration bill and all firearms laws and violence in New Hampshire. Most of the members of the study committee would be appointed by anti-gun House Speaker Terri Norelli.

The committee is likely to have determined its "recommendations" before the first hearing is even called to order. The committee's recommendations would be issued at the beginning of November. This is an underhanded strategy to conceal the legislature's support of gun control until after the election!

Taking a page out of the Obama/Hillary playbook (Benghazi!) the Concord anti-gunners don't want you to know the truth about their intentions until after the next election!

We don't even know what this supposed new amendment says!

Now, we are hearing that there is another proposed amendment but there are no copies available for public review.

Rep. Butler is likely pushing another anti-gun amendment. He is trying to do this in secret and hopes you won't notice!

Once the Committee acts we will inform you about what they did and what our next move will be to protect your rights to sell, loan or give away any of your firearms. Please watch your inbox!

Thanks for your support.

In Liberty,
Jonathan R Evans
Jonathan R. Evans, Esq.
President - NHFC

P.S. The New Hampshire Firearms Coalition is working tirelessly to keep gun owners like you up-to-date on as many gun issues as possible -- please consider contributing to the effort by chipping in $15 or $20.
 
TL;DR version the full committee votes on HB 1589 on Tuesday, February 4. Oh, and give money to NHFC

Credit for the video goes to Oathkeeper Ken OK Park Jr. and the person who asked the initial question (When can we see the amendment?) was Susan Olsen, who later reports she got the runaround when she actually tried to leave contact information to get a copy of this mysterious new amendment.
 
Last edited:
Kevin_NH said:
TL;DR version the full committee votes on HB 1589 on Tuesday, February 4. Oh, and give money to NHFC

Credit for the video goes to Oathkeeper Ken OK Park Jr. and the person who asked the initial question (When can we see the amendment?) was Susan Olsen, who later reports she got the runaround when she actually tried to leave contact information to get a copy of this mysterious new amendment.
Click to expand...

... and I asked Butler at 5pm today where a copy of the amendment was and it "is not ready" I was given another BS line "We have two different amendments and are still working on it".

Lime time I checked, the proposed legislation was a violation of both NH and US Constitutions... Just kill this bill.

-Design
 
Disturbing. I guess we are supposed to pass it to know what's in it? Closed door politics are not appropriate to pro-rights work. Either coordinate with your allies or expect them to treat you as you treat them... with extreme suspicion.
 
So are they introducing the amendments today, and voting on Tuesday?

I'm sorry to say I haven't watched the process this closely before. Is it normal for us to hear that amendments are coming to the bill, but have no idea what the hell those amendments are supposed to contain?
 
Lots of people at the hearing opposing the bill, yet the chair is intent on passing the bill. I have received a hard copy of the amendment. I will try to get this posted tonight.
-Design
 
design said:
Lots of people at the hearing opposing the bill, yet the chair is intent on passing the bill. I have received a hard copy of the amendment. I will try to get this posted tonight.
-Design
Click to expand...

I couldn't make it. But. What can we do to make the chair stand down? Obviously, mass numbers of emails, phone calls and people showing to the hearings in opposition is not working.

There must be another way without resorting to violence.

If he is all that stands in the way of the bill being ITL'd then we need to find a way to quote "break him."

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe an organized protest outside of the inn he owns up in Harts Location (just to the Northwest of Conway)?
 
soloman02 said:
I couldn't make it. But. What can we do to make the chair stand down? Obviously, mass numbers of emails, phone calls and people showing to the hearings in opposition is not working.

There must be another way without resorting to violence.

If he is all that stands in the way of the bill being ITL'd then we need to find a way to quote "break him."

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe an organized protest outside of the inn he owns up in Harts Location (just to the Northwest of Conway)?
Click to expand...
IN
 
Tuesday's vote is just the first of many chances to stop this bill.

The Commerce and Consumer Affairs Committee committee chair can play all the games he wants with schedules and amendments, but eventually this has to come to a vote.

Also, assuming this bill makes it out of the Commerce and Consumer Affairs Committee, it still has to pass the criminal justice committee, then a full vote. Tuesday's vote is just the first of many chances to stop this bill.


[banghead]I really want to see what's in this new amendment.
 
Kevin_NH said:
The Commerce and Consumer Affairs Committee committee chair can play all the games he wants with schedules and amendments, but eventually this has to come to a vote.

Also, assuming this bill makes it out of the Commerce and Consumer Affairs Committee, it still has to pass the criminal justice committee, then a full vote. Tuesday's vote is just the first of many chances to stop this bill.


[banghead]I really want to see what's in this new amendment.
Click to expand...

If we can kill it now it gains no momentum though. Is Mr. Butler the one we need to go after?
 
Ok guys. Susan Olsen is reporting on this and has the amendment.


Si vis pacem, para bellum


Susan Olsen said:
After today’s sub-committee “hearing” on HB 1589, Universal Background Checks, I am saddened to have to admit to myself that any foolish beliefs I held about representative government and due process are the stuff of children’s dreams. I’ve always liked to believe that I am a logical, rational person who is able to connect dots; when I cannot, I used to believe that sound, in-depth research would lead me to facts, and ultimately, truths. Maybe not truths that I liked, but truths nevertheless.

What I am saying is I am fully convinced that that the fix is in on HB 1589…[you'll see below the amendment handed out today which we were told they plan to amend again before Tuesday's Executive Session] The chair of the committee, Ed Butler, Democrat of Hart’s Location, could care less about 1000s of emails and hundreds of phones opposing gun registration – the ultimate goal of HB 1589. He says “appreciates” our points of view, he says ‘respects” our opinions, but from where I sat today, he seemed as though he could give a red rat’s rear-end about our rights when he believes they should be restricted, if allowed at all. He and the bill’s prime sponsor, Elaine “Blood Red Shoes” Andrews-Ahern (lord I hate the pretension of hyphenated names), are hell-bent on sneaking the camel’s nose of gun registration underneath the statutory tent.

Make no mistake. The aberration of a piece of legislation is still metastasizing and the newest growths will not be revealed until sometime Tuesday morning before the full committee meets to “exec” it.
Click to expand...


Here is the Amendment:

Rep. Butler, Carr. 7
Rep. Andrews-Ahearn, Rock. 37
January 30, 2014
2014-0331h
04/05

Amendment to HB 1589-FN

Amend the title of the bill by replacing it with the following:

AN ACT requiring a criminal background check for certain firearm sales or transfers.

Amend the bill by replacing all after the enacting clause with the following:

1 Purpose. It is the purpose and intent of the general court in enacting RSA 159-E to require commercial firearm sales and transfers in New Hampshire to be processed through a licensed firearms dealer, who will conduct a background check and create a record of each sale. The general court believes this law will protect public safety by helping to keep guns out of the hands of felons, domestic abusers, the dangerously mentally ill.

2 New Chapter; Universal Background Checks for Firearms Sales. Amend RSA by inserting after chapter 159-D the following new chapter:

CHAPTER 159-E
UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR FIREARMS SALES

159-E:1 Definitions. As used in this chapter:
I. “Commercial sale” means a sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm that takes place at, or on the curtilage of, a gun show or pursuant to an offer to sell or buy a firearm that took place at a gun show, or pursuant to an advertisement, posting, listing, or display.

II. “Firearm” means any weapon or device designed to be used as a weapon, which will, is designed to, or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, explosion, or other means of combustion, or the frame or receiver of such a device, provided the term “firearm” shall not include the term “antique firearm” as defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(16), or a weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable and is incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition.

III. “Individual” means a natural person.

IV. “Law enforcement” means any person employed by the United States, or a state, county, city, municipality, village, township, or other political subdivision as a police officer, peace officer, or another position involving the enforcement of the law and protection of the public interest.

V. “Licensed firearms dealer,” “licensed dealer,” or “dealer” means a person who has a valid federal firearms dealer license under 18 U.S.C. section 923(a), and all additional licenses required by state or local law to engage in the business of selling firearms.

VI. “Person” means any corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, club, organization, society, joint stock company or other entity, and shall include any entity that engages in business in this state, in whole or part, through Internet or mail order sales.

VII. “Prohibited person” means any person who is prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. section 922(d) or pursuant to state law.

159-E:2 Firearms Sales to be Conducted Through a Licensed Dealer.

I. No person shall engage in the commercial sale of a firearm unless:

(a) The person is a licensed firearms dealer;
(b) The purchaser is a licensed firearms dealer; or
(c) The requirements of paragraph II are met.

II. If neither party to a prospective firearms transaction is a licensed firearms dealer, the parties to the transaction shall complete the commercial sale through a licensed firearms dealer as follows:

(a) The seller shall deliver the firearm to the dealer, who shall process the sale as if he or she were the seller, except that the seller may remove the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted. If the seller removes the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted, the purchaser and the seller shall return to the business premises of the licensed dealer, and the seller shall again deliver the firearm to the licensed dealer prior to completing the sale.

(b) Except as provided in subparagraph (a), the dealer shall comply with all requirements of federal, state, and local law that would apply if the licensed dealer were selling the firearm from his or her inventory to the purchaser, including but not limited to, conducting a background check on the prospective purchaser, which shall include a check of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and compliance with all federal, state, and local recordkeeping requirements.

(c) If the transaction is not prohibited, the dealer shall deliver the firearm to the buyer after all legal requirements are met.

(d) If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the buyer, the dealer shall return the firearm to the seller and the transfer to the buyer shall not take place.

(e) The dealer may require the purchaser to pay a reasonable fee.

159-E:3 Exception. This chapter shall not apply to a noncommercial, private sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm between individuals, provided neither party to the transaction is a prohibited person. If the status of either party’s eligibility to own or possess a firearm cannot be ascertained, the transaction shall be completed through a federally-licensed firearm dealer pursuant to RSA 159-E:2, II.

159-E:4 Penalties.
I. Any person who violates any provision of this chapter shall be guilty of a class B misdemeanor for a first offense, and a class A misdemeanor for a second or subsequent offense. Each day or portion of a day during which a violation of this chapter is committed or continues shall constitute a separate offense.

II. The local law enforcement agency shall report all violations of this chapter by a licensed firearms dealer to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

159-E:5 Other Laws.
I. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to modify or change the duties of the department of safety pursuant to RSA 159-D.
II. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require or authorize any state, county, or local law enforcement agency to establish or maintain a registry of firearms sold or transferred in accordance with this chapter.

3 Applicability. The provisions of section 2 of this act shall apply to the sale of a firearm on or after the effective date of this act and shall not apply to sales completed prior to the effective date of this act.
4 Effective Date. This act shall take effect January 1, 2015.
Click to expand...


So they basically took the big issues we were hammering them with and amended the bill such that those arguments don't work.

I find it very interesting that the included the exception for people who are not prohibited persons.

That said we still need to fight it. But our arguments on technical merits have been diminished...
 
Last edited:
Also a committee member, Rep. Laura Jones (on our side) had this to say on the FB page for the 2/23 rally:

Rep. Laura Jones said:
Butler admitted today that this bill is the first incremental step for NH.
Click to expand...

BTW, she is in charge of recruiting for Strafford County.
 
Someone on FB brought up a good point. The "loophole" (159-E:3 Exception) basically guts the "universal background check" part of the bill so those that are in favor of the original will probably be unlikely to support this amendment.

However, Susan said this: "which we were told they plan to amend again before Tuesday's Executive Session" so they may still try and pull a fast one.

- - - Updated - - -

AlKatori said:
I'd just keep writing in that RSA 159 'as is' is sufficient and it works for New Hampshire.
Click to expand...

Please mention RSA 159:7 and RSA 159:14 as well.

Here is the part of my letter that mentioned those. Feel free to modify it however you see fit.

Second, New Hampshire already has law addressing this. RSA 159:7 states: " No person shall sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a pistol, revolver or any other firearm, to a person who has been convicted, in any jurisdiction, of a felony." Also, as it relates to handguns, RSA 159:14 states: " None of the provisions of this chapter shall prohibit an individual not licensed under the provisions thereof who is not engaged in the business of selling pistols or revolvers from selling a pistol or revolver to a person licensed under this chapter or to a person personally known to him." This section is one of the more difficult to read but in laymen's terms it says that a NH resident cannot sell a handgun to another NH resident unless that person is personally known to them (implying that you know if they are a felon or not) or that person has in their possession a valid pistol and revolver license for which a background check is performed during the approval process.
Click to expand...
 
So they put in a non-commercial private sale exception, but their definition would cover NES classifieds, armslist, etc:

Amendment said:
" I. “Commercial sale” means a sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm that takes place at, or on the curtilage of, a gun show or pursuant to an offer to sell or buy a firearm that took place at a gun show, or pursuant to an advertisement, posting, listing, or display.
Click to expand...
 
According to GONH, who is still opposed to the Amendment, the following highlighted (in red) sections will probably be either amended further or taken out.

Also supposedly the green highlighted section will be removed before the executive session next Tuesday.




Rep. Butler, Carr. 7
Rep. Andrews-Ahearn, Rock. 37
January 30, 2014
2014-0331h
04/05

Amendment to HB 1589-FN

Amend the title of the bill by replacing it with the following:

AN ACT requiring a criminal background check for certain firearm sales or transfers.

Amend the bill by replacing all after the enacting clause with the following:

1 Purpose. It is the purpose and intent of the general court in enacting RSA 159-E to require commercial firearm sales and transfers in New Hampshire to be processed through a licensed firearms dealer, who will conduct a background check and create a record of each sale. The general court believes this law will protect public safety by helping to keep guns out of the hands of felons, domestic abusers, the dangerously mentally ill.

2 New Chapter; Universal Background Checks for Firearms Sales. Amend RSA by inserting after chapter 159-D the following new chapter:

CHAPTER 159-E
UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR FIREARMS SALES

159-E:1 Definitions. As used in this chapter:
I. “Commercial sale” means a sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm that takes place at, or on the curtilage of, a gun show or pursuant to an offer to sell or buy a firearm that took place at a gun show, or pursuant to an advertisement, posting, listing, or display.

II. “Firearm” means any weapon or device designed to be used as a weapon, which will, is designed to, or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, explosion, or other means of combustion, or the frame or receiver of such a device, provided the term “firearm” shall not include the term “antique firearm” as defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(16), or a weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable and is incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition.

III. “Individual” means a natural person.

IV. “Law enforcement” means any person employed by the United States, or a state, county, city, municipality, village, township, or other political subdivision as a police officer, peace officer, or another position involving the enforcement of the law and protection of the public interest.

V. “Licensed firearms dealer,” “licensed dealer,” or “dealer” means a person who has a valid federal firearms dealer license under 18 U.S.C. section 923(a), and all additional licenses required by state or local law to engage in the business of selling firearms.

VI. “Person” means any corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, club, organization, society, joint stock company or other entity, and shall include any entity that engages in business in this state, in whole or part, through Internet or mail order sales.

VII. “Prohibited person” means any person who is prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. section 922(d) or pursuant to state law.

159-E:2 Firearms Sales to be Conducted Through a Licensed Dealer.

I. No person shall engage in the commercial sale of a firearm unless:

(a) The person is a licensed firearms dealer;
(b) The purchaser is a licensed firearms dealer; or
(c) The requirements of paragraph II are met.

II. If neither party to a prospective firearms transaction is a licensed firearms dealer, the parties to the transaction shall complete the commercial sale through a licensed firearms dealer as follows:

(a) The seller shall deliver the firearm to the dealer, who shall process the sale as if he or she were the seller, except that the seller may remove the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted. If the seller removes the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted, the purchaser and the seller shall return to the business premises of the licensed dealer, and the seller shall again deliver the firearm to the licensed dealer prior to completing the sale.

(b) Except as provided in subparagraph (a), the dealer shall comply with all requirements of federal, state, and local law that would apply if the licensed dealer were selling the firearm from his or her inventory to the purchaser, including but not limited to, conducting a background check on the prospective purchaser, which shall include a check of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and compliance with all federal, state, and local recordkeeping requirements.

(c) If the transaction is not prohibited, the dealer shall deliver the firearm to the buyer after all legal requirements are met.

(d) If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the buyer, the dealer shall return the firearm to the seller and the transfer to the buyer shall not take place.

(e) The dealer may require the purchaser to pay a reasonable fee.

159-E:3 Exception. This chapter shall not apply to a noncommercial, private sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm between individuals, provided neither party to the transaction is a prohibited person. If the status of either party’s eligibility to own or possess a firearm cannot be ascertained, the transaction shall be completed through a federally-licensed firearm dealer pursuant to RSA 159-E:2, II.

159-E:4 Penalties.
I. Any person who violates any provision of this chapter shall be guilty of a class B misdemeanor for a first offense, and a class A misdemeanor for a second or subsequent offense.

Each day or portion of a day during which a violation of this chapter is committed or continues shall constitute a separate offense.

II. The local law enforcement agency shall report all violations of this chapter by a licensed firearms dealer to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

159-E:5 Other Laws.
I. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to modify or change the duties of the department of safety pursuant to RSA 159-D.
II. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require or authorize any state, county, or local law enforcement agency to establish or maintain a registry of firearms sold or transferred in accordance with this chapter.

3 Applicability. The provisions of section 2 of this act shall apply to the sale of a firearm on or after the effective date of this act and shall not apply to sales completed prior to the effective date of this act.
4 Effective Date. This act shall take effect January 1, 2015.
Click to expand...
 

Similar threads

CT: HB-5467 An Act Concerning Firearms Background Checks (2024)
Replies
2
Views
226
sbhaven
S
Biden EO: Background Checks for Private Sales
Replies
1
Views
300
Toast
Toast
ATF Rule Requires Smugglers to Get NICS Checks on Gun Sales
Replies
14
Views
327
powerman
powerman
Thousands more gun dealers must run background checks on buyers as Biden administration moves to close 'doggone dangerous' loophole
Replies
4
Views
187
AJK129
AJK129
ATF Redefines All Private Sales & Who Has To Have A FFL
2
Replies
38
Views
1K
Flint
F
Back
Top Bottom