Ammo in house fire - again

[Maxrobot]

t neighbors warned 911 dispatchers about who lived at the home saying, "that they were concerned about this house and about this individual that they said had guns. Crews put out the flames just before 6 a.m., and once the rest of the ammunition went off, firefighters and police were able to get into the home."In the front part of the residence is a male, burned extensively, and laying next to that individual is an assault weapon." Police also found weapons — a lot of weapons. At the scene, police officers and witnesses heard gunfire erupting from the home, as well as ammunition being "cooked off" continuously from the heat.

2 people, dog found dead in rubble of ammunition-fueled fire at Sylmar home

Two people and a dog were found dead after the fire. Neighbors said the man who lived there was known to have a lot of guns. Some said they were scared of him.

www.foxla.com

 

[Maxrobot]

You can hear the ammo popping.

2 people, dog killed in Sylmar house fire

Two people and a dog were found dead after a fire in a Sylmar home. A man and the dog were found in the rubble, while a woman was found in the pool on the property. The fire was worsened by the thousands of rounds of ammunition exploding in the flames.

www.foxla.com

 

[Prepper]

I've never tried it but I've heard plenty of times that cooked off ammo just pops a few few feet away and doesn't travel fast like a fired bullet, since there's no chamber to hold in the expanding gasses and allow the bullet to escape down the barrel. Wouldn't the fire fighters been just fine, especially since they are wearing gear that protects them from hot stuff like cooked off ammo?

 

[rudiewhitebwoy]

 

[ddeck]

I've never tried it but I've heard plenty of times that cooked off ammo just pops a few few feet away and doesn't travel fast like a fired bullet, since there's no chamber to hold in the expanding gasses and allow the bullet to escape down the barrel. Wouldn't the fire fighters been just fine, especially since they are wearing gear that protects them from hot stuff like cooked off ammo?

SAAMI has a video on this with the test. starts at 13:10


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

 

[Prepper]

SAAMI has a video on this with the test. starts at 13:10


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

Nice video, thanks. So it does look alarming but the fire fighters would be just fine, probably want to not stand next to the ammo but who would do that anyway.

 

[Uzi2]

"Jordan Turner and Bri Simon" .........(undoubtedly miserable democrats and WOKE AS CAN BE).....probably the neighborhood Karens, always snooping into everyone else's business.

The guy wore fatigues?.....OMFG!!!!!.......call the FBI!!!!! How brain damaged does a person have to be to be so mentally manipulated by the clothing that someone wears? If the guy walked around all the time in a business suit, would they opine that he's some rich elitist that's screwing the average joe? PEOPLE SUCK!!!!

I wear fatigues around here frequently......they're comfortable in 3 seasons and useful when going out in the woods on my property. Plenty of pockets, loose fitting and don't stand out.

 

[Uzi2]

Nice video, thanks. So it does look alarming but the fire fighters would be just fine, probably want to not stand next to the ammo but who would do that anyway.

Normal firefighter turnout gear is more than sufficient protection from (NON CHAMBERED) small arms ammunition cooking off. It's been tested by the NFPA.

 

[AMV]

Nice video, thanks. So it does look alarming but the fire fighters would be just fine, probably want to not stand next to the ammo but who would do that anyway.

What about the possibility of powder, 8 pound jugs of smokeless powder will react with a bit different than loaded ammo,

 

[ddeck]

What about the possibility of powder, 8 pound jugs of smokeless powder will react with a bit different than loaded ammo,

This was posted yesterday relating to powder jugs in a fire:

Ammo Fueled House Fire Kills Homeowner & Dog In CA.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/firefighters-battle-ammunition-fueled-fire-in-sylmar/ Is it time yet for an ammunition fire megathread ??? [laugh]

www.northeastshooters.com

SAAMI has tested it all.

 

[Uzi2]

What about the possibility of powder, 8 pound jugs of smokeless powder will react with a bit different than loaded ammo,

Powder is packaged in plastic jugs......those jugs melt and provide NO containment for the burning powder within.

A bottle or can of olive oil or a can of Lysol spray or Raid in a kitchen cabinet is more dangerous than a 8# plastic jug of smokeless powder.

 

[vicorjh]

What about the possibility of powder, 8 pound jugs of smokeless powder will react with a bit different than loaded ammo,

Black powder is more problematic.
Storing powder in a pressure vessel would be a concern (e.g. something sealed and capable of maintaining pressure)
Smokeless powders rely on progressive burn rate. The rate of burn increases as pressure increases. Free air, they burn slow relative to black powder.


View: https://youtu.be/uo62BFj-n0g?feature=shared

 

[Asaltweapon]

Normal firefighter turnout gear is more than sufficient protection from (NON CHAMBERED) small arms ammunition cooking off. It's been tested by the NFPA.

This. All day everyday.

 

[AMV]

Powder is packaged in plastic jugs......those jugs melt and provide NO containment for the burning powder within.

A bottle or can of olive oil or a can of Lysol spray or Raid in a kitchen cabinet is more dangerous than a 8# plastic jug of smokeless powder.

It’s not about an explosion, it is the rapid amount of heat generated, that’s what keeps the fire department from entering the building,

 

[pastera]

What about the possibility of powder, 8 pound jugs of smokeless powder will react with a bit different than loaded ammo,

Smokeless just burns if not contained - other than acting as an accelerant it is not a hazard.

 

[SpaceCritter]

So it's official: the New Thing is Evil Ammo.

 

[AMV]

Smokeless just burns if not contained - other than acting as an accelerant it is not a hazard.

Isn’t an accelerant a hazard to the fire department, especially in unknown quantities? With unknown storage conditions, it can make it more than just an accelerants.
Point is I don’t blame the FD for not going in to a structure with unknown conditions and rounds cooking off, That’s what insurance is for

 

[Uzi2]

So it's official: the New Thing is Evil Ammo.

Yup, and all the gullible morons in society will suck up the BS information, hook, line and sinker.

Meanwhile, their closet full of synthetic clothing, their plastic computers, their plastic furniture all create a deadly environment for them and firefighters.

 

[Uzi2]

Isn’t an accelerant a hazard to the fire department, especially in unknown quantities? With unknown storage conditions, it can make it more than just an accelerants.
Point is I don’t blame the FD for not going in to a structure with unknown conditions and rounds cooking off, That’s what insurance is for

Small arms ammunition is not an accelerant.....it cooks off slowly as it is exposed to ignition temperatures and is very controllable.....moreso than the gallon of gasoline for the lawn mower or snowblower that is stored in the garage under dwelling or the living room furniture.

 

[PaulR]

Sweet.
The only thing I get out of this article is that according to police, I now have "A lot of weapons"
according to you guys though, I probably only have "a decent start"

 

[AMV]

Small arms ammunition is not an accelerant.....it cooks off slowly as it is exposed to ignition temperatures and is very controllable.....moreso than the gallon of gasoline for the lawn mower or snowblower that is stored in the garage under dwelling or the living room furniture.

Correct,
But what about the smokeless powder we where discussing, and unknown conditions?

 

[GaryO]

Sweet.
The only thing I get out of this article is that according to police, I now have "A lot of weapons"
according to you guys though, I probably only have "a decent start"

14 is WAAAY over the limit for a reporter to add that an "Arsenal" was found in the house.

 

[Uzi2]

Correct,
But what about the smokeless powder we where discussing, and unknown conditions?

Every entry made by firefighters into any residence is an unknown condition. Just because some smokeless powder might be present, that is no reason not to aggressively enter and fight the fire.

 

[AMV]

Every entry made by firefighters into any residence is an unknown condition. Just because some smokeless powder might be present, that is no reason not to aggressively enter and fight the fire.

I guess you don’t live in a town with a volunteer fire department.
Rounds actively cooking off would certainly keep most on the outside,

 

[Soundwave]

So what's the rest of the story? Was the guy trying to put out the fire with his assault rifle?

 

[Uzi2]

I guess you don’t live in a town with a volunteer fire department.
Rounds actively cooking off would certainly keep most on the outside,

Actually I do, and I also have 25 years of experience in the firefighting service myself.

Any volunteer firefighter who would preclude their entry into a residence based on the presence of small arms ammunition should be considered unfit for the job and never allowed on any fireground again.....along with any officer who might give an order not to enter.

Small arms ammunition and its behavior in a fire has been well documented for decades and it is of minimal hazard no matter the amount involved.

 

[Zappa]

From yesterday:

Ammo Fueled House Fire Kills Homeowner & Dog In CA.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/firefighters-battle-ammunition-fueled-fire-in-sylmar/ Is it time yet for an ammunition fire megathread ??? [laugh]

www.northeastshooters.com

 

[AMV]

In

Actually I do, and I also have 25 years of experience in the firefighting service myself.

Any volunteer firefighter who would preclude their entry into a residence based on the presence of small arms ammunition should be considered unfit for the job and never allowed on any fireground again.....along with any officer who might give an order not to enter.

Small arms ammunition and its behavior in a fire has been well documented for decades and it is of minimal hazard no matter the amount involved.

They call them foundation savers for a reason……
In your experience on the FD What is the purpose for the storage permit for what they call large amounts of ammo, powder and primers?

 

[Dennis in MA]

"Jordan Turner and Bri Simon" .........(undoubtedly miserable democrats and WOKE AS CAN BE).....probably the neighborhood Karens, always snooping into everyone else's business.

The guy wore fatigues?.....OMFG!!!!!.......call the FBI!!!!! How brain damaged does a person have to be to be so mentally manipulated by the clothing that someone wears? If the guy walked around all the time in a business suit, would they opine that he's some rich elitist that's screwing the average joe? PEOPLE SUCK!!!!

I wear fatigues around here frequently......they're comfortable in 3 seasons and useful when going out in the woods on my property. Plenty of pockets, loose fitting and don't stand out.

To be fair. . . .

To quote Phoebe: "Hello Kettle, it's Monica. . . . you're black!"

 

[Uzi2]

In

They call them foundation savers for a reason……
In your experience on the FD What is the purpose for the storage permit for what they call large amounts of ammo, powder and primers?

Unfounded paranoia.

The NFPA has demonstrated a 400,000 round small arms ammunition fire in a building and the results were less than impressive. Ammo only cooks off as it becomes exposed to sufficient temperatures to ignite it. Rapid application of water quickly controls the temperature and severely diminishes the ability for cook off to occur.

As for foundation savers, response time is the major reason for fires reaching catastrophic proportions. A fire doubles in size about every minute or less.
Notification of a dispatcher of the fire, dispatch to volunteers, travel time to apparatus, travel time to the fireground............any fire by then is well underway. Then add to that lack of large water supply, possible difficulties in finding the residence (especially rural ) so there's not much to be done once firefighters are on scene except to contain it to the building of origin and protect exposures.

By the way, I was not a volunteer, I was on a large paid fulltime municipal department.