Advice on S&W Model 27 (Photo added)

[Jim Poulette]

I'm getting really sick of chasing brass, so I finally scraped up enough to score one of these. Really suprised how balanced it is, even with a Matchdot on it.

2 questions to confirm (for now):

1. Do I have to use moonclips? - or can I just hand load the cylinder and go.

2. Using wadcutters is OK correct?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[FPrice]

Congratulations on your Model 27. They are one of the best revolvers ever made.

No, you do not need to use moon clips. The rim on the brass holds the rounds from falling through and the extractor will push them out of the cylinder.

Wadcutters should be no problem if your revolver is in good shape.

How about some pics?

 

[gerrycaruso]

The model 27 has a relativly short cylinder. If you reload, check the overall length of 1 round before you load a bunch. A heavy Keith style bullet in .357 brass will be too long. I found that out almost just in time. Great gun.

 

[Jim Poulette]

Thanks for the responses - I'll try to post some pics here and on my user-page. I'm amazed at how all the mechanical stuff works so smoothly - some say it's bacause it's a PC version.

I'm going to start with .38sp in an effort to make a seamless transition from .32swl, albeit with a new gun. I'm sure it'll take a while to get use to it - but I'm looking forward to the learning curve.

Any tips on the best way to load it for 5 shots?? - not a biggee, but I'm sure someone has some good ideas!

Jim

 

[Patriot]

Thanks for the responses - I'll try to post some pics here and on my user-page. I'm amazed at how all the mechanical stuff works so smoothly - some say it's bacause it's a PC version.

I'm going to start with .38sp in an effort to make a seamless transition from .32swl, albeit with a new gun. I'm sure it'll take a while to get use to it - but I'm looking forward to the learning curve.

Any tips on the best way to load it for 5 shots?? - not a biggee, but I'm sure someone has some good ideas!

Jim

Use 158gr .357 mags to transition instead of .38 spl to avoid getting the cylinder crudded
up with junk from the shorter case. If you reload just use .357 cases with .38 spl loads
if you want a reduced load. Why five shots? Nice guns, them old S&W's. Here's my 27:

ETA: If you can stand a 1.2Meg transfer I can send you a nice pdf of a Model 28 S&W
Instruction sheet. The Model 28 is the same as the 27 without the polished hardware.
PM me your email if you want it.

 

[eisenhow]

Why five shots?

Bullseye target shooting perhaps?

 

[Patriot]

duplicate post

 

[Jim Poulette]

Well, if I use it for CF bullseye - it'll be 2-5 shot rounds per target. I'm not exactly sure how I'd set up the loading scheme yet....but I was interested in how folks who have an 8-round cylinder use it for bullseye. I didn't get it specifically for bullseye - but I'd like to give it a try.

Patriot - if that's a 5" - it's the same as mine, sans the nickel and PC logo.

 

[Jim Poulette]

S&W Model 27 photo!

Patriot, I can take the transfer, please send it - I'd appreciate it.

I'm a lousy photographer, but here's the best I can do:

 

[Dick]

I shoot a lot of bullseye, but not with a revolver. I can't recall the last time I saw a revolver on the line, but they certainly were used back in the day, and if you happen to be able to shoot like Babe Magnin (still shooting for Leominster, BTW) did at one time, you can even turn in High Master scores with one.

That said, I don't think there are really many options for loading your 8-shot cylinder, unless I'm missing something. You're not going to want to click through any empty chambers - certainly not in the sustained fire stages, so that means loading 5 chambers in sequence and then positioning the cylinder upon closing on an empty chamber so that the first round is immediately to the right, at about the one o'clock position (because S&W cylinders rotate counter-clockwise, as you probably know).

In theory, some chambers of a revolver have the potential to be more accurate than others, but in practice I doubt you're likely to see any difference until you start shooting your own High Master scores, and perhaps not even then.

My understanding is that when Babe was setting records, some of which I believe still stand, with his revolver he shot single-action even in the rapid fire stage, cocking the hammer with his left (weak) hand thumb, so that's apparently legal, though obviously the gun still has to be shot with one hand only.

 

[Jim Poulette]

Dick,

I've been to a few NRA bullseye matches and I saw a revolver *once* on the line down in Braintree. The guy had great scores, but no where near the .32SWL crowd.

Obviously, this will just be for fun - but being a mechanical engineer I've always had a real attraction to the revolver mechanism. I think you hit it right, load 5 and return the cylinder correctly so you pull the next 5 shots. Doesn't seem all that hard, but then again I haven't tried to do it quickly either. I'm not sure what to think of moonclips - never used them before. And on the score side - I'll keep at it, but I'm not sure I'll ever get beyond bullseye sharpshooter anyway. What do they say? C'est la Vie!

 

[Dick]

No particular reason to be able to do it quickly - it shouldn't take all that long in any case, and you should be given enough time between strings (some guys need to reload their one and only magazine!). If not, on command "Is the line ready?" just say "Not ready on Position X" and you'll be given time to finish.

P.S. You'd need to have your cylinder modified (headspace increased) to accept moon clips, and then you'd always have to use them.

 

[Jim Poulette]

You're right - no rush really......

Cool thing about the Performance Center stuff is that they come pre-machined from S&W and includes 2 moonclips. Funny looking things, that's for sure. Like I said, not sure what to make of them.....

Oh - and I'm told you don't NEED to use them, it's actually optional.


By the way - I meant to ask if it's safe to dry fire these?

 

[Dick]

Cool thing about the Performance Center stuff is that they come pre-machined from S&W and includes 2 moonclips. Funny looking things, that's for sure. Like I said, not sure what to make of them.....

Oh - and I'm told you don't NEED to use them, it's actually optional.


By the way - I meant to ask if it's safe to dry fire these?

Huh - I didn't know that PC Smiths were set up for moon clips. The only revolver that I sometimes use them with is an old Model 25 that's chambered for .45 ACP. The moon clips are necessary there for extraction and don't affect the headspacing because the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth.

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of moon clips (I load .45 Auto Rim brass for my Model 25), which I recognize is a minority opinion around here, so I'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that with a rimmed cartridge the clip fits under the cartridge rim and therefore adds its own thickness to that of the rim. Because the .357 headspaces on the rim, I don't see how their use can be optional - but as I said I'm no expert, so maybe someone can jump in and explain it.

According to S&W's own published information, dry-firing is OK on all centerfire Smith revolvers (though there will always be someone around to tell you you shouldn't do it).

 

[BossHarley]

We have a shooter or 2 in our bullseye league that bring out a revolver from time to time. They shoot really well with them (our league is a rimfire league).

J

 

[WILDCATT]

revolver

I used a mod 10 with bomar rib.and had no problem with cocking in timed and rapid.I am not the best shot by any means.I dont remember Babe using left hand to cock.that would be very occward.
I dont think the rimmed cartridges have half moon clips only the 45 and 9 mm.

 

[Dick]

I'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that with a rimmed cartridge the clip fits under the cartridge rim and therefore adds its own thickness to that of the rim. Because the .357 headspaces on the rim, I don't see how their use can be optional - but as I said I'm no expert, so maybe someone can jump in and explain it.

I'm replying to my own post here because I've continued to try to understand how moonclips can be "optional" with a cartridge that headspaces on the rim and came across this thread from The Firing Line forums that explains how, complete with photos. Apparently the trick is in leaving a raised border (for lack of a better word) equivalent to the thickness of the moonclip on the cylinder that the rim headspaces on when the moonclip - which fits into a machined recess interior to the border - isn't being used.

Simple . . . when you know how it's done, that is.

 

[Jim Poulette]

Dick - that's excellent.

That first photo tells the whole story for me. There's a "ring" of raised material at the edge of the cylinder and I would imagine the moon-clip fits inside the ring. The S&W clips I have measure about .022 thick - thinner then I would have imagined.