ADs and NDs, share your tales of woe

[Hawgleg44]

I would have to agree that the duck hunting incident was a ND. I guess it was from all the time I spent on the trap, skeep and sporting clays range that drilled it into my head about keeping your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

When I'm hunting, it's just like when I'm on the range, and it all happens subconsciously. When I'm bringing my gun up, taking my lead and following through, my finger is not in the trigger guard. It only takes a split second to move it from outside the guard to on the trigger to take the shot.

Something very similar happened to me while duck hunting several years ago. I was standing in the water when a duck came flying straight at me. I was waiting until the duck came closer since it was not safe to shoot due to other hunters where it was when I first saw it. As it came closer, and was flying over me to my left, I brought up the shotgun to take the shot. I attempted to step to the rear with my left foot for a better angle, but was stuck in the mud. This resulted in me falling backwards (but I did keep the shotgun above water ). Yes, that cold water sure did make me tense up, but no shot was fired since my finger was where it belonged, outside the trigger guard. It was there, even though I had the shotgun up to my shoulder and was just about ready to shoot.

Now for the lever gun incident. When I'm lowering my hammer to half cock, I use only my right hand, but I put my thumb between the receiver and hammer from the top. This way, if it ever was to slip, nothing would happen.

 

[KMaurer]

In case there's actually anybody here who thinks that you need to have your finger inside the trigger guard/on the trigger before you've actually started your shot, I'e got a slow motion picture of Rob Leatham shooting an El Presidente. He clears the holster, raises the gun to eye level and has the sights on the target ... all with his finger outside the trigger guard. Only at that point does his finger start to move towards the trigger. A lot of people have trained themselves for their whole lives to go to the trigger earlier, which certainly makes it seem normal to them. It still doesn't make it right or safe.

Ken

 

[lhonda]

drilled it into my head about keeping your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot..

I could not agree more, and perhaps didn't make it sufficiently clear when I posted originally, but the fact is that the guy's finger was in the trigger guard because he was in the process of slapping the trigger. It was not a case of the finger being in the TG prematurely. The man was in the process of firing, as in, the split second the decision was made to shoot, in one motion the man leaned in and put his finger on the trigger to shoot., with a bird in his face.

Anyway, appreciate the comments, and hope everyone has a safe and fantastic 4th.

L

 

[TonyD]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.


Anyway, cheers.

L

You can disagree all you want. However, do not ask for opinions if you may not like the response.

Also, I will caution you this one time to refrain from deregatory comments, it's not tolerated on this board.

Happy 4th everyone!

Semper Fi!

 

[KMaurer]

I could not agree more, and perhaps didn't make it sufficiently clear when I posted originally, but the fact is that the guy's finger was in the trigger guard because he was in the process of slapping the trigger. It was not a case of the finger being in the TG prematurely. The man was in the process of firing, as in, the split second the decision was made to shoot, in one motion the man leaned in and put his finger on the trigger to shoot., with a bird in his face.

Now I'm really confused. If you deliberately put your finger into the trigger guard and onto the trigger as part of firing a shot, then the fact that the gun went off at that moment hardly seems to be an accidental discharge, but rather a deliberate, intentional discharge. Of course, the fact that the shooter steps into a hole at that same instant certainly would qualify as an accident, and this certainly would affect the placement of the shot. I've had that sort of thing happen more times than I like to remember (targets that shoot back at you tend to interfere with your planning and intent), but none of the shots I fired were accidental.

Ken

 

[Lynne]

I highly respect those who have served, and all of you who share our passion of shooting sports, but very frankly, I think paper punchers and some of those who proclaim there are no ADs are full of shit. I've hunted waterfowl alone for 1000 days in the past 8 years, with 1 AD, and I know in my heart that negligence had squat to do with it; it was pure accident. And while some will certainly disagree, there's nothing in this world that could convince me otherwise--I was there.

Anyway, cheers.

L

While I respect your right to have an opinion, lhonda, you also need to respect the fact that I have mine as well.

1 - I never said there was never such a thing as an AD. There are AD's. What you described in the hunting scenarios to me were not AD's.

2 - I teach personal protection with a firearm and I was an armed security guard supervisor. I don't JUST punch paper. I PRACTICE, and my finger knows when to go on the trigger.

3 - Since you were there, then apparently you're the expert with that situation. Just remember one thing - if a gun goes bang and you don't intend for it to go bang, then something WRONG just happened - what it's labeled as doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot at that point. My opinion is if your finger is on the trigger and it goes bang before you want it to, there was some level of negligence involved.

I had a lovely Independence Day, thank you. I hope you did as well.

 

[Nickle]

Put me down as them both being ND's. They may have been accidents, but that doesn't make them AD's.

An AD by definition is a discharge that could not have been reasonably prevented by the shooter. The Duck Hunter and the Deer Hunter could have prevented the discharges. A "slam fire" can still happen, even though the shooter has applied all "reasonable" safety measures. Other AD's do happen, but, they are rare.

And the reference to a ND in a combat situation? It'll still be a ND. And, by the way, I've served FAR longer than average.

Jeff Cooper is VERY right when he refers to ALL guns as loaded. Kinda hard to have an AD hurt someone, when the gun is kept pointed safely.

 

[TonyD]

An AD by definition is a discharge that could not have been reasonably prevented by the shooter. The Duck Hunter and the Deer Hunter could have prevented the discharges. A "slam fire" can still happen, even though the shooter has applied all "reasonable" safety measures. Other AD's do happen, but, they are rare.

This is a very good definition.

 

[lhonda]

Uncle, and thanks for the memories...

 

[TonyD]

Uncle, and thanks for the memories...

Has nothing to do with uncle. It's just the opinions you received from posting your question. The great thing about this forum is we post our opinions from individual experiences and discuss them in a mature manner. We don't always agree with each other but the wise learn from other peoples mistakes. And, we all make them.