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A3 style AR legal in Hi Power/CMP?

Ozman

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Looking to get back into Hi Power competition and am planning on purchasing a Bushmaster comp model. Sort of one stop shopping, y'know/

My question is, they list an A3 flat top (comes with carrying handle) along with the "standard" A2 model. For a variety of reasons this option appeals to me (other uses down the road, etc...)

But would it be CMP legal as long and iron sights were used during competition?

As always, thanks,

Steve
 

Ozman

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Well. that was fast!


First, thanks Derek for the prompt reply.

99% of the time with such a quick and short answer I would be inclined to ask the "answerer" for a bit more justification/backup for the respsonse, but something tells me coming from you that I can rely on the answer with authority. ;)

I'm kinda half surprised given the nature/strictness of the rules, but then again, I can also kind see why it would be considered legal too.

You are truly a font of knowledge my man! Thanks, as always, for the help, never mind the best forum of its type on the net.

Steve
 

Ozman

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Steve give me time to find the CMP rule. I'll post it when I locate it.


That would be great Derek. Thanks a million. My only copy of the rules is a) old and b) at home. And even then I'm not sure I'd be confident in pinpointing the exact section that ok's this. I really appreciate the help.

Cannot wait to get back on the line.

Steve
 

DR

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Looking to get back into Hi Power competition and am planning on purchasing a Bushmaster comp model. Sort of one stop shopping, y'know/

My question is, they list an A3 flat top (comes with carrying handle) along with the "standard" A2 model. For a variety of reasons this option appeals to me (other uses down the road, etc...)

But would it be CMP legal as long and iron sights were used during competition?

As always, thanks,

Steve

The CMP site has a page answering this very question. Short answer: they're legal as of 2004.

You may run out of elevation adjustment at longer ranges.
 

DR

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You guys rock. Thanks for the great specific help.

DR, can youexpand on the concern about running out of elevation adjustment on the A3 sights?

Take a look at this post over at THR. It has a couple of pictures showing the difference in max elevation between the two sights. It shouldn't be an issue until you get to 600 yards. There are detachable carry handles with the larger range elevation wheels so don't let that affect your A2/A3 decision; just make sure that you get a carry handle with the A2 style sight.
 

Ozman

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Outstanding. Thanks for the insight. At 600 yard I'm pretty much just closing both eyes, crossing my fingers on my weak hand and praying for the best anyway....;)

Thanks again!

Hope to see some of you guys out there again. Family and business stuff had really taken me away from the sport, along with the "loss" of my full comp ready M14, but I really dig the idea of competing with a prepped AR and have seen some coverage that people are doing ok with them. Bottom line is I just want to get back out there and have some fun, y'know, but I want to be approaching it from the right angles in terms of equipment. Can't beat the price on the Bushmaster and I have heard its a pretty decent tool for the excercise.

You guys rule. Thanks again for the help.

Steve
 
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If your talking about the Bushmaster DCM model, as far as I know, it's NOT legal to use it in the CMP Shoots because of the weights and heavy barrel. But you can use it in NRA National Match competition.
 

Ozman

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Will see you out there at Reading or Nashua!

Gotta check the dates. And then it'll come down to whether or not I can get the new long gun in my hands before then. But trust me, I'll be hitting the first and closest matches as soon as I get it have a chance to get it to a range for whatever break in procedure is required.

Steve
 
J

Jose

Ozman, not to be nitpciky but an M16A3 is the same as an M16A2 with a SAFE-SEMI-AUTO selector instead of the A2's SAFE-SEMI-BURST.

The M16A4 is the flat top 20" rifle, so Bushmaster's nomenclature is incorrect.
 
J

Jose

If your talking about the Bushmaster DCM model, as far as I know, it's NOT legal to use it in the CMP Shoots because of the weights and heavy barrel. But you can use it in NRA National Match competition.

Check the rule book. The internal modifications allowed to service rifles used in Excellence In Competition matches are almost limitless.
 

Ozman

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Ozman, not to be nitpciky but an M16A3 is the same as an M16A2 with a SAFE-SEMI-AUTO selector instead of the A2's SAFE-SEMI-BURST.

The M16A4 is the flat top 20" rifle, so Bushmaster's nomenclature is incorrect.

Jose, not nitpicky at all. If true, and I'll assume it is unless others with authority and credibility chime in to the contrary, thats what I call good old-fashioned educational information. Lots of sources refer to flat-tops as A3's and its only recently I've started to see "A4" pop up in the nomenclature. In fact, I thought "A4" was the typo and not the other way around, so thanks for time and helpful information.

Whatever we call'em, I can't wait to get my hands wrapped around one of them.

Steve
 

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Steve,

Jose is correct, it is A4. When you get one make sure you come back here with your questions. There are a lot of hard HP shooters in this forum that will be more than happy to help you out.

Jon,

To be totally honest I haven't seen one flat top used in HP Service Rifle Competition. If I was going to buy another service rifle upper it would be an A2.
 
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I've got an A4. I like it because the sight sits lower on the gun, and my face has better contact with the stock in the prone position. I've also got a couple of A2s.

The carrying handle coming loose is a problem only in theory. Match rifle shooters typically have sights that they take on and off at the end of each day. Also, when I shot match rifle, I had one front sight for 200 & 300 and a separate front sight for 600 yds. and that never seemed to be a problem.

I agree they are not as popular but that may be because they have not been accepted for use in competition as long as the A2s.

B
 

Ozman

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I bought one with the intention of getting into competition but never did[frown]

As for the flattop... From a competition point of view, wouldn't it be better to have a secure A2?

Jon, I totally agree, that in the best case scenario an A2 would probably have an edge over an A4. The extra variables *could* come into play under some conditions. I will have to be a little more dilligent when it comes to make sure things are tight and zero is good. But I think for me, the difference would be ngeligible (The Camp Perry attendees around here are safe no matter what iron I'm shooting).

I want the A4 to open up my options optics-wise down the road if I use the gun for things other than CMP competition. Thats the short version on my choice of the flat-top with carry handle.

Derek, as always, thanks. For me, this is the ONLY place where I know enough guys personally with their credentials that I can trust them without question. Its the best run, best moderated, most civil and knowlege-filled forum I have found that covers as many firemarms issues from laws, to technique, to the classifieds, all the way to questins like mine today.

Steve
 
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My No. 1 gun is still and A2. Not as studly as the A4. I can't wait to get a super studly A6 rifle. That's gonna be wicked pissa. ;-)

B
 
J

Jose

As for the flattop... From a competition point of view, wouldn't it be better to have a secure A2?

Nope. Not necessarily.

NRA Highpower is service rifles and match rifles. All match rifles have detachable sights. They repeat within a click or two each time they come on and off so long as the bases are quality.
 
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