A little aggravated

[mark095]

I'm a new graduate of Souter-ricks Home safety and basic pistol instructor course.. (Rick is an Excellent Teacher) Anyways I sent an email to my local range NBRG, to find out how they wanted to be listed on my insurance.. I was informed that the By-law of 1 guest at a time would apply to me.. (NRA Instructor or not) and that the club has taken the view that someone using the club
to teach a class is basicly competing with the club, since the club teaches classes....

 

[mark095]

I wouldnt need the clubs classroom, I have one available to use at any time, i would only need the range for the live fire part of the course

 

[Len-2A Training]

Unfortunately you've just learned that many clubs don't want trainers there! They may run a club sponsored class one time/month or perhaps twice a year with 20 students each and they think that is adequate!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Even if you just use the range, it's still competition with the club. Most gun clubs are real "clubs", not businesses run for the benefit of an owner/investor like a country club. Members don't pay their dues, volunteer their work time, etc. to subsidize the overhead of a private business.

But, if you are interested in offering courses on behalf of the club (as a volunteer, with the money after expenses going to the general fund of the club) you may find a welcoming audience. The Hopkinton club has turned down numerous requests by members who want to run their business out of the club, but accepted an offer from a member who wanted to start a club training program - and he runs a regular schedule of intro classes to benefit the club.

 

[[cerberus]]

Based on what you have said, it sounds like you just assumed you were going to be able to do this without even asking. Did you have any formal requests or meetings with the club board (if one exists) to ask about doing this? I can see how the club may be put off if all you did was ask for insurance information, without any prior meetings.

At a minimum I would expect some kind of rental fee or surcharge would be appropriate since, as others have mentioned, you are using a facility paid for by member dues to run a business.

 

[mark095]

Cerberus, I sent an email to the VP asking about how to go about doing training. I just mentioned the insurance, so they would know they wouldnt be lible for anything.... This is all new to me so im learning as I go..

 

[mark095]

Rob, to me that would be fine.. After expenses....To do this right the startup expences can get a little pricey, NRA Student Packs, 50 rounds of 22 each. Do I figure in Insurance, the cost of the projector, dummy rounds, blue training guns, wall charts and the initial fee I paid for my course? If I can break even and posibly buy lunch would be fine...

 

[Emoto]

Even if you just use the range, it's still competition with the club. Most gun clubs are real "clubs", not businesses run for the benefit of an owner/investor like a country club. Members don't pay their dues, volunteer their work time, etc. to subsidize the overhead of a private business.

This.

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

Our club you pay per head fee to the club for each student. With a few instructors running courses it easy for club members to get friends and family there safety certificate class quickly with no hassle. Win Win, after all the bottom line is getting more people involved in shooting sports, also different courses offered by different instructors offer variety to new shooters.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob, to me that would be fine.. After expenses....To do this right the startup expences can get a little pricey, NRA Student Packs, 50 rounds of 22 each. Do I figure in Insurance, the cost of the projector, dummy rounds, blue training guns, wall charts and the initial fee I paid for my course? If I can break even and posibly buy lunch would be fine...

I've run multiple courses at the Hopkinton club on exactly that basis, though I took the instructor's course ages before doing so and did not factor that in. I also find that asking people help with a volunteer class is easy - ask them to help with a paid course and they will want a cut of the action.
'
As to insurance - it may not be necessary to have your own training policy if you do volunteer work for a club. My club's insurance covers the board, and anyone "acting on behalf of the club" (kind of hard to argue one is not acting on behalf of the club when the club collects the fees and offers only expense reimbursement). My homeowners and general umbrella policy covers volunteer work for non profits, but not "employment or business activity" so, once again, doing it as a volunteer helps.

 

[namedpipes]

You plan to offer classes at the gun range you belong to?

Whether you're using a classroom, the yard, the range, the club has "strangers" on the grounds and has a right, a need and a duty to know about it. They *ought* to let you do it, presuming it doesn't conflict with other club functions/events, but they should get a slice AND should pay a piece of their share to the insurance company.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Our club you pay per head fee to the club for each student. With a few instructors running courses it easy for club members to get friends and family there safety certificate class quickly with no hassle. Win Win, after all the bottom line is getting more people involved in shooting sports, also different courses offered by different instructors offer variety to new shooters.

That is what one of my clubs does. And I find >50% of students end up joining the club they did their training at, so club benefits in a big way.

 

[MisterHappy]

Mark

Congratulaions on becoming an instructor.

Welcome to the world of "business".

When I've run "events" at my club, (GOAL Cup, Inter-Club shoots) the bottom line is that the Club "makes Money" - in that there's a benefit to the club for the use of the facilities.

If you're running a 'profit-making ' operation on Club grounds, they'll expect (and rightly so) a "piece of the action."

If you got your cert to make money.....you should have done due dilligence WRT your business plan; if it's to help educate the masses....see about joining your Club's training team.

My son and I are kicking around the idea of a HFS course geared to middle-school aged kids ( as he can relate to them!) and the start-up costs that you noted are part of our figuring, as well as a venue.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Anyone who thinks they can "make money" teaching gun classes has another thing coming . . . a shocking realization that expenses for everything are not insignificant and you might make a few bucks, but certainly are more likely to make more money/hour in a menial job somewhere else!

EXCEPTIONS: There are always exceptions . . . if you rent a facility (meaning you control it 24x7) and hire others to teach for peanuts, you can rake in the dough. If you rent a full-time location and work all kinds of crazy hours, spend a fortune on a website and advertising, you can make a small income (e.g. you could make more net pay working for someone else).

I do not/would not expect a club insurance policy to cover my butt in a lawsuit!! And adequate instructor insurance cost >$300/year. NRA's policy on what guns are suitable for training also leads to another shocker when you find out most of your guns don't "qualify" and have to go out and spend another $1-3K for firearms you didn't own previously. Nobody else will pay to repair your guns when they break because students swing out cylinders on revolvers like they see on old TV shows, bounce the guns off tables, jam a mag in backwards so a gunsmith is needed to get it out, etc. If you doubt me on this ask Steve Hathaway or Jeff Kaplan (or AFS or MFL as rental guns suffer the same sort of abuses)!

 

[inerlogic]

I wouldnt need the clubs classroom, I have one available to use at any time, i would only need the range for the live fire part of the course

NBRG?
what about woodcock? i believe they have a one guest policy... but maybe they'd be more flexible as a civic range?

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

That is what one of my clubs does. And I find >50% of students end up joining the club they did their training at, so club benefits in a big way.

That's a side benefit I forgot to mention lots of new members many of which only use the range once or twice a year but want a place to shoot. Instructors also carry there own insurance pretty cheap through the NRA.

 

[mark095]

Anyone who thinks they can "make money" teaching gun classes has another thing coming . . . a shocking realization that expenses for everything are not insignificant and you might make a few bucks, but certainly are more likely to make more money/hour in a menial job somewhere else!

Im not doing it for the money. although making a couple of bucks is nice. Im doing it becouse my girlfriend went to a Firearm Saftey Course a few months back, she was given NO NRA pack no MA law nothing but a krinkled up BFS that looked like it had been copied 500 times.. She said class of 10 were falling asleep after the first half hour. It was her that got me motivated to become an instructor, her words were "youve been shooting for years, Your theatrical, and funny, you would be an awesome instructor" Thats why im doing this, for the love of the sport.. I can make the class fun and exiting, get people involved, hands on... As for money,,, id like to recoupe costs, and after a class or two if I can pick up a Ruger MIII for $207 thatll put a smile on my face...

 

[mark095]

NBRG?
what about woodcock? i believe they have a one guest policy... but maybe they'd be more flexible as a civic range?

Funny you mention Wookcock, they wont allow it any more .. To much liability.. found that out today from someone who used to train there..

 

[inerlogic]

Funny you mention Wookcock, they wont allow it any more .. To much liability.. found that out today from someone who used to train there..

Yeh... Figured it was worth a shot.....
Club president at Sippican has a lock on training there too.... Only he can teach classes.....