A bad decision...

[Catguy]

I was weighing whether to buy a pistol for target shooting or a shotgun for the hunting season, and I couldn't afford to get both.

Since I have a bow, I reasoned, I should get the pistol so I can have fun with target, plate, and bullseye shooting at my local club over the winter - and that'd hold me until Spring, when I would get a shotgun for Spring Turkey. So I came home with a new Ruger Mark III. Sounded like a good plan....

Until today... when on the last day of the fall turkey season in Mass (and the only day I'd been able to get out for turkey), I found myself eye to eye(s) with 30+ turkeys making their way through the woods. And, you guessed it... staying just outside my bow range the entire time. If I had gotten the shotgun I wanted, I'd be eating turkey for dinner instead of tag soup. Away they went, up the hillside too fast for me to catch them - and stalking turkey's a good way to end up dead, so all I could do was stand there and drool.

And to top it off, I've just started hunting turkey - would have been my first one. Let this be a lesson to all....

 

[Broc]

thats why you always carry a handgun when you go hunting, even if its a .22, you never know when you might need it.

Chuck Norris would have killed those turkeys.

 

[firestorm]

Thats funny, I was out today and got my first bow kill. Unfortunately I was out setting up for deer, felt sick and had to walk out, and shot a quail on my way out. First bowkill, a friggin quail.

 

[boilermaker]

thats why you always carry a handgun when you go hunting, even if its a .22, you never know when you might need it.

You may have problems with bringing a handgun into the woods with you hunting. I went 'round and 'round with the instructor at my hunter ed class about having a pistol with you and he said if an EPO were to see it, you would be arrested.

For example, if you look at the Mass turkey regs:

Hunting only with shotguns no larger than 10 gauge (.775 caliber for smoothbore muzzleloaders) and restricted to shot sizes #4–#6, or with bows 40 lbs. pull or greater.

So from the EPO view, if you are hunting, you are in violation of this regulation. Why would you have the pistol with you. Good luck convincing the officer that you were not using it to hunt with. And if you are not hunting, then you might be viewed as a poacher or something else. Either way you are likely to get arrested.

I can't say I agree with any of this given my "No Restrictions" license but thought I would pass this along.

 

[Squished]

You may have problems with bringing a handgun into the woods with you hunting. I went 'round and 'round with the instructor at my hunter ed class about having a pistol with you and he said if an EPO were to see it, you would be arrested.

For example, if you look at the Mass turkey regs:

Hunting only with shotguns no larger than 10 gauge (.775 caliber for smoothbore muzzleloaders) and restricted to shot sizes #4–#6, or with bows 40 lbs. pull or greater.

So from the EPO view, if you are hunting, you are in violation of this regulation. Why would you have the pistol with you. Good luck convincing the officer that you were not using it to hunt with. And if you are not hunting, then you might be viewed as a poacher or something else. Either way you are likely to get arrested.

I can't say I agree with any of this given my "No Restrictions" license but thought I would pass this along.

But now what about during deer season when you're walking around with your 20/12 gauge? Any issues carrying a handgun then? As far as I'm concerned, my permit says restrictions None, so whether I carry while I'm legally hunting with my shotgun for deer or carry to the grocery store, it's exactly the same thing unless it's explicitly different than that elsewhere.

 

[boilermaker]

But now what about during deer season when you're walking around with your 20/12 gauge? Any issues carrying a handgun then?

Look at the regs - it is even more specific:

"The possession of rifles, handguns, or dogs in any woodland or field, or use of same on any game, is prohibited during the shotgun deer season except that the use of dogs is lawful for hunting waterfowl on coastal waters."

It is your call.

 

[Squished]

Look at the regs - it is even more specific:

"The possession of rifles, handguns, or dogs in any woodland or field, or use of same on any game, is prohibited during the shotgun deer season except that the use of dogs is lawful for hunting waterfowl on coastal waters."

It is your call.

I know it's there, but then on your license it should read as Restrictions: No carry while hunting or whatever PC language they want to use to describe the act of concealing a firearm while hunting. Wouldn't your license restrictions override the MA Wildlife regs? It's obvious they contradict each other much like most laws in MA, I guess it would have to go to court to figure it out.

 

[boilermaker]

I know it's there, but then on your license it should read as Restrictions: No carry while hunting or whatever PC language they want to use to describe the act of concealing a firearm while hunting. Wouldn't your license restrictions override the MA Wildlife regs? It's obvious they contradict each other much like most laws in MA, I guess it would have to go to court to figure it out.

I view it the same way as not being able to carry into a Federal courthouse, for example. It doesn't list that as a restriction on the license but I know I can't do it.

 

[Squished]

I view it the same way as not being able to carry into a Federal courthouse, for example. It doesn't list that as a restriction on the license but I know I can't do it.

Well, I view the courthouse analogy as different. I can see the courthouse because usually there is immediate police presense, but I still can't see the woods. There's no one out there.

 

[boilermaker]

Well, I view the courthouse analogy as different. I can see the courthouse because usually there is immediate police presense, but I still can't see the woods. There's no one out there.

Good point on the courthouse. But doesn't it apply to any Federal building as well? Like a Post Office for example, technically not allowed to carry there?

Like I said, the instructor and I went back and forth on this, and while I still feel the same way as you do on this, I don't cary in the woods. But I do carry a shotgun with me pheasant or deer hunting, so I can't say Mass has left me exposed or I don't have a gun to protect me. I might feel different if I hunted bow, but I only use guns to hunt with.

 

[glockstones]

I personaly would like to see it changed aswell because there have been a few times one that jumps out from last year where I was slowing walking into the deeper woods and into this field where I saw about 5-6 coyotes sitting down to breakfast on a small(very small)doe. I kinda stopped and stared and they noticed me but what happened next was alittle unexpected, they actually started taking a few slow steps towards me. This of course kinda scared the s out me being that I had a bow with an arrow nocked and a large knife but that was it, had they decided to come further then I may not have done so well after the first one just saying I also don't see why you can't carry a pistol with you. I am also not the only person to be confronted by the coyotes in that area they get pretty big with all the yuppie fluffy pets around that area so they eat well. Now that the rifle ban is lifted I am thinking a couple of nice days on the bait pile with the AR-15 would be a nice day out in january.

 

[Broc]

well, what if you carry a black powder six shooter?
i can hit an 8" metal gong at a 100 yards with a "cowboy" gun.

and during deer season, black powder is allowed.

 

[Squished]

well, what if you carry a black powder six shooter?
i can hit an 8" metal gong at a 100 yards with a "cowboy" gun.

and during deer season, black powder is allowed.

It would fall under handgun I presume, and therefore be prohibited! See, makes no sense.

 

[Brian5582]

I look at it like they call it "concealed" for a reason. I have yet to come up to a EPO and had them search me lol. If you are not being an idiot and doing stupid things they have no reason to bust your balls. I have never had any problems with any of them.

 

[Catguy]

Chuck Norris would have killed those turkeys.

Chuck Norris would have attached a string, thrown the arrow himself (no bow necessary), and strung up all 40 turkeys like a set of Christmas lights.

 

[Catguy]

Re: the handgun thing, I actually think it'd be a great idea in the case of a severe wounding - rather than let the deer bleed out over many hours or have to knock an arrow to put into its head, I'd rather squeeze the trigger on a .22 to put it out mercifully.

 

[Broc]

Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli Iglesias View Post
well, what if you carry a black powder six shooter?
i can hit an 8" metal gong at a 100 yards with a "cowboy" gun.

and during deer season, black powder is allowed.

It would fall under handgun I presume, and therefore be prohibited! See, makes no sense.

i dont think that a black powder six shooter (lead ball and powder, no cartridge) would count.

during deer season you can hunt with a rifled musket (any caliber, as long as it is larger than .45 i think), and thats a rifle.

dont you love Massachusetts laws? (sarcastic)

they spend so much time making up new laws and interpreting old laws, when they should just make the laws a little simpler.

 

[glockstones]

I know you don't need a permit for black powder rifles you just need to be 18, is the same true with black powder pistols? If that is the case can you "carry" a black powder pistol? If so does that shed more light on the post in the general forum about an 18 year old adult being able to carry? Sorry if it is alittle off topic but it just dawned on me.

 

[Squished]

I know you don't need a permit for black powder rifles you just need to be 18, is the same true with black powder pistols? If that is the case can you "carry" a black powder pistol? If so does that shed more light on the post in the general forum about an 18 year old adult being able to carry? Sorry if it is alittle off topic but it just dawned on me.

WOW, if that's the case then what a loophole!

 

[Broc]

see, the thing about black powder is: if its not primed, then its not loaded. Because, without a primer, you just can not shoot.

Thats why black powder is getting big, because even X-convicts can own them.

so, you could technically carry a six shooter, and just dont put any primers on the cylinders, and if you see a coyote that wont run away, you can always prime it right there, and shoot. Between the noise, smoke and smell, he will run away.

theres a law about double rifles, or something about speed loading. I think in most states (not sure about massachusetts), speed loading is not legal. And thats why you can not have a loaded double musket, but for it to be loaded, it needs a primer on each nipple, so you can carry a double musket with powder and ball on each barrel, but just prime one, if you need a second shot, you prime the other one. (although a good hunter shouldnt need a second shot)

anyways i think you can carry one in the woods with you. just remember:

no primer=not loaded

I know you don't need a permit for black powder rifles you just need to be 18, is the same true with black powder pistols? If that is the case can you "carry" a black powder pistol? If so does that shed more light on the post in the general forum about an 18 year old adult being able to carry? Sorry if it is alittle off topic but it just dawned on me.

yes, it is the same. You can go to kittery trading post, or Bass pro shop, or cabelas online and get one shipped to you. As long as it doesnt use a cartridge. It has to be muzzle loaded (load it from the front of the cylinder).

ex: you could buy this gun right now, without a license: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-1858-Buffalo-Stainless-Steel-44-Caliber-Revolver/739973.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Drevolver%26x%3D0%26y%3D0&Ntt=revolver

 

[Plural of Mongoose]

You need to read the hunting abstracts.
If you have a double barreled gun, one barrel needs to be made inoperable. Not just "unloaded". This may involve removing the hammer or the nipple.
The regs also say that possession of a handgun, rifle or use of dogs is prohibited during the shotgun season unless you are hunting waterfowl, on the water.
Regs. state somewhere in the abstracts that the the weapon must be shoulder fired and have a barrel 18 inches or longer.

As for finishing off a deer after you have wounded it with an arrow,then you are simply wounding it with an arrow and then actually killing it with a gun. Cant do that during bow season.

 

[Catguy]

As for finishing off a deer after you have wounded it with an arrow,then you are simply wounding it with an arrow and then actually killing it with a gun. Cant do that during bow season.

When you put it that way, good point.

 

[Squished]

As for finishing off a deer after you have wounded it with an arrow,then you are simply wounding it with an arrow and then actually killing it with a gun. Cant do that during bow season.

While this is a great point, I fail to see how this option isn't better than letting it suffer there on the ground for who knows how long while it bleeds out or suffocates on its own blood. "Killing" the animal with a handgun is far more humane than letting it suffer for ANY amount of time.

 

[clancy dogg]

...and stalking turkey's a good way to end up dead, so all I could do was stand there and drool.

Educate a non-hunter, please-- how do you end up dead stalking turkeys?

 

[Magsrgod]

I think the reason you cant bring pistols deer hunting with you in this state is because its a shotgun state. If you could bring a pistol you could technically bring a TC Encore pistol that shoots 30-06, which is basically bringing a very short barreled high power centerfire cartridge with you. If the pistol was outfitted with a scope it would be more accurate than anything legal to hunt deer with here.

 

[jkeeley1]

Educate a non-hunter, please-- how do you end up dead stalking turkeys?

starvation?

 

[boilermaker]

Educate a non-hunter, please-- how do you end up dead stalking turkeys?

Having never hunted turkeys I am not an expert. But I believe that you do not have the hunter orange requirements because turkeys can see colors. So there you are, stalking turkeys in full camo and someone might not see you there behind that tom.

 

[SheepDog_B]

Educate a non-hunter, please-- how do you end up dead stalking turkeys?

...You're not the only hunter in the woods...

 

[SheepDog_B]

I plan to get into bow hunting sometime soon and I'll say this...
I'll be carrying a side arm. You never know what you'll stumble across in the forest.

 

[clancy dogg]

Having never hunted turkeys I am not an expert. But I believe that you do not have the hunter orange requirements because turkeys can see colors. So there you are, stalking turkeys in full camo and someone might not see you there behind that tom.

...You're not the only hunter in the woods...

AHA! I figured there was something I was missing. Thanks to both of you. I had visions of those little dinosaurs from Jurassic Park that ate Newman....