9mm reload question

[M1911a1g17]

Hello all. I am new to reloading, so please forgive me for being a rookie here and any mistakes I may be making in this post. I have been using berry plated 124 gr round nose bullets. I have 1000 poly coated bullets that I want to load. I was wondering if it is safe to use load data for 125 gr lcns. I will be using the same powder w231. I noticed that the coal is different. But also according to my calipers they polycoated is .600 in length and the plates is .583 long. In the load data I am using it states that for plated the coal is 1.15 and for lcn 1.125. The charge weight for max and min is the same. My question is can i use the data for lcn’s with polycoated bullets? And if is seating them a little deeper standard? Thank you again.

 

[Lennypeters]

You will be fine. Make sure they chamber and fit and feed from the magazine.

 

[Penniepup1]

Never apologize for being new at something and to reach out for advice.

 

[Jay77]

Remember to start testing/loading on the lower end of the load data and work your way up until you find that sweet spot. Load up a few and test, multiple range trips may be required.

 

[Leezway]

Invest in a chronograph….. that is a tool I think all who reload should have.

 

[allen-1]

Hello all. I am new to reloading, so please forgive me for being a rookie here and any mistakes I may be making in this post. I have been using berry plated 124 gr round nose bullets. I have 1000 poly coated bullets that I want to load. I was wondering if it is safe to use load data for 125 gr lcns. I will be using the same powder w231. I noticed that the coal is different. But also according to my calipers they polycoated is .600 in length and the plates is .583 long. In the load data I am using it states that for plated the coal is 1.15 and for lcn 1.125. The charge weight for max and min is the same. My question is can i use the data for lcn’s with polycoated bullets? And if is seating them a little deeper standard? Thank you again.

Your powder coated or poly bullets are LEAD bullets with a coating.
Use Lead bullet load data.

Before you load a live round, you might load several dummies, (no powder, no primer), to the COL you're using and cycle them through your firearm.

As with any new load, use the recommended starting load, load ten or so, take them to the range and chrono them.
Based on results, up the charge or don't.
Repeat until happy.

 

[M1911a1g17]

@Lennypeters i will. But I should with the listed coal in the data and can that be played with after some?

@Penniepup1 thank you I appreciate that.

@BFDX7 that is what I have been doing. Been loving it because it’s an excuse to get to the range more!

@Leezway i actually just got one yesterday. Still getting used to using it.

@allen-1 thank you. That’s what I have been doing. Question for you though. How do you know when you find that “sweet spot”? What is your basis for this? Accuracy? Speed? Obviously you want it to cycle and function but what is the “seer spot” you are looking for?

Thank you all.

 

[milktree]

1 grain difference in bullet weight is irrelevant. There's probably close to 1 grain variation between the heaviest and lightest of either bullet type.

The overall length is important for two reasons:

1) The round has to fit in the magazine, feed, and chamber properly.
2) it determines the amount of volume *INSIDE* the case.

(1) is obvious.

(2) is less obvious. Smokeless powder's burn rate is exponentially related to the pressure it's under, and seating the bullet too deep leads to higher pressures. (that's a discussion for another class) So, seating too deep can lead to super high pressures that can blow stuff up.

But don't worry about it, you're not going to blow your gun up with a 0.01" difference.

But if you want to do too many measurements, measure the length of the projectile, and compare the published overall lengths for each to the *DEPTH* of the heel of the bullet. e.g. take the COAL for each cartridge and subtract the bullet length, and I'll bet you'll end up with the same number.

One potential complication is that some bullets have a hollow base, which increases the volume inside the case, so it gets harder to do the math. But if the two bullets you're using are both flat base, it's easy.

 

[Jay77]

Sweet spot is that it cycles and has the greatest accuracy. And yes additional range trips are welcomed.

 

[allen-1]

@Lennypeters i will. But I should with the listed coal in the data and can that be played with after some?

@Penniepup1 thank you I appreciate that.

@BFDX7 that is what I have been doing. Been loving it because it’s an excuse to get to the range more!

@Leezway i actually just got one yesterday. Still getting used to using it.

@allen-1 thank you. That’s what I have been doing. Question for you though. How do you know when you find that “sweet spot”? What is your basis for this? Accuracy? Speed? Obviously you want it to cycle and function but what is the “seer spot” you are looking for?

Thank you all.

@allen-1 thank you. That’s what I have been doing. Question for you though. How do you know when you find that “sweet spot”? What is your basis for this? Accuracy? Speed? Obviously you want it to cycle and function but what is the “seer spot” you are looking for?

Depends upon what you're loading for. I primarily shoot 9mm for IDPA, USPSA and Steel Challenge. I also shoot plates and pins with it. I'm loading 124 grn plated bullets over 4.0 grains of TiteGroup. Starting point for TiteGroup is 3.6, max is 4.1. I started at 3.7 and worked up.

My determination of the load was based on it reliably cycling every 9mm gun that I run, including my two PCCs and making "power factor" in all of them. (If you don't already know, power factor is a number determined by dividing fps by grains, and is designed to keep a level playing field in terms of ammo in IDPA and USPSA).

So, I chrono'd.

It's not the optimal load for pins, but it's great for everything else.

 

[Ranger007]

Hello all. I am new to reloading, so please forgive me for being a rookie here and any mistakes I may be making in this post. I have been using berry plated 124 gr round nose bullets. I have 1000 poly coated bullets that I want to load. I was wondering if it is safe to use load data for 125 gr lcns. I will be using the same powder w231. I noticed that the coal is different. But also according to my calipers they polycoated is .600 in length and the plates is .583 long. In the load data I am using it states that for plated the coal is 1.15 and for lcn 1.125. The charge weight for max and min is the same. My question is can i use the data for lcn’s with polycoated bullets? And if is seating them a little deeper standard? Thank you again.

Welcome to the forum!!! The guys hit the nail on the head. Ask away and have fun. Again welcome to NES.

 

[Lennypeters]

All good advice. 9mm is easy to load and quite forgiving. Don't sweat OAL provided they chamber and fit the mag. As noted don't go too short. Start a little long and go from there.

 

[M1911a1g17]

@milktree thank you for the info! That’s very interesting! What are the benefits of a hollow base bullet?

@BFDX7 ok thank you! That is good to know.

@allen-1 that is very interesting thank you. If you don’t mind me asking, is titegroup your preferred powder for 9mm? If so why? Thank you!

@Ranger007 thank you I appreciate it! They really did. I have been enjoying it very much.

@Lennypeters good to know thank you.

 

[DW357]

@allen-1 thank you. That’s what I have been doing. Question for you though. How do you know when you find that “sweet spot”? What is your basis for this? Accuracy? Speed? Obviously you want it to cycle and function but what is the “seer spot” you are looking for?

This. Like allen I shoot IDPA/USPSA as well which is not bullseye shooting. Though you'll occasionally have 40-50 yard shots but not often. Anyway, unless you're a bullseye shooter (and a very good one at that), the average shooter will not be able to see much of a difference if the ammo they're shooting is capable of grouping 1 inches or 3 inches at 50 yards for example. The shooter will have more of an influence than the ammo IMO.

Precision/long range rifle shooting and the reloading for that, is a whole different animal. That's where a "sweet spot" can be found etc.

 

[DW357]

@milktree thank you for the info! That’s very interesting! What are the benefits of a hollow base bullet?

@BFDX7 ok thank you! That is good to know.

@allen-1 that is very interesting thank you. If you don’t mind me asking, is titegroup your preferred powder for 9mm? If so why? Thank you!

@Ranger007 thank you I appreciate it! They really did. I have been enjoying it very much.

@Lennypeters good to know thank you.

I can't speak for Allen but I used to run Titegroup and it worked just fine - little dirty but burns VERY hot. I now use N320 which basically has the same burn rate as TG and doesn't burn nearly as hot. Anyway, using fast burning powders (like TG or N320) in 9mm is nice because you can get A LOT of ammo per pound with fast burning powders. Slower burning powders like Unique or Power Pistol for example, will require more powder.

 

[DW357]

You don't have to use the OAL specified in your manual. I shoot CZ pistols which have a short throat and use heavy 150 gr coated bullets so I had to seat them to 1.10" for them to chamber. You just have to start low with the powder charge and work up from there since the deeper you seat them the higher the pressure - as you already know.
But now that particular bullet company changed their bullet profile (longer bullet with a narrow ogive) this year so now I can seat them to 1.13" and keep the same powder charge and they had the same velocity as the old style bullets seated to 1.10".
As others have said, just make sure they chamber and fit in the magazine.

 

[DW357]

One thing to keep in mind with TG and other fast burning powders is that you can easily double (and possibly triple) charge the cases since they take up such a small amount of space inside the case. Slower burning powders will fill the case better. I haven't had any issues with fast burning powders but I also can see inside the case before I seat the bullet.

 

[M1911a1g17]

@andrew1220 that is what I figured. In a handgun I probably won’t see it because I am not bench shooting them. That makes sense on the precision/long range is where you will really see the difference. As with the powder that is good to know. It will be better to get more rounds out of a lb. question though. With burn rates. Does one of the other perform better in longer or shorter barrels? For example if trying to figure out a load for let’s say 3in barrel. Would it be better to use a faster burning powder than a slower? Or vice versa? Obviously staying within safe limits. That is good to know about the coal thank you. Very happy to learn as much as I can. That makes sense. I have been weighing every charge to start just double check. And also a visual check. I am using a separate Hornady powder measure at the moment.

 

[DW357]

@andrew1220 that is what I figured. In a handgun I probably won’t see it because I am not bench shooting them. That makes sense on the precision/long range is where you will really see the difference. As with the powder that is good to know. It will be better to get more rounds out of a lb. question though. With burn rates. Does one of the other perform better in longer or shorter barrels? For example if trying to figure out a load for let’s say 3in barrel. Would it be better to use a faster burning powder than a slower? Or vice versa? Obviously staying within safe limits. That is good to know about the coal thank you. Very happy to learn as much as I can. That makes sense. I have been weighing every charge to start just double check. And also a visual check. I am using a separate Hornady powder measure at the moment.

I haven't done a lot of testing with fast vs slow burning powders in various barrel lengths but my gut reaction is that fast burning powders would be ideal in shorter barrels. I'd imagine they would gain most of their pressure/velocity before the bullet exits the barrel. If you're shooting a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) with a 16" barrel for example, you "might" have a slower velocity (if using a fast burning powder) compared to shooting them out of a pistol barrel? Not sure.

 

[Jay77]

Worst is when you rule a load out because of bad grouping and your kid picks up the gun with the same load and shoots a tight group.

 

[M1911a1g17]

@andrew1220 i agree. That is my gut feeling as well. I would like to see that tested. Maybe already done. I am not sure. Thank you though.

@BFDX7 hahahah I can imagine!

 

[walter62]

You definitely see velocity differences w/ different barrels. I took out some 44M loads yesterday that had their load data
for 3" barrel. Was supposed to get 1600FPS per the data but my gun is a 7.5" barrel. The speed was 150FPS faster (1750 FPS).

Different bullet and different barrel length (about what my gun has), I was within 17 FPS of the book (1183 vs. 1200)

 

[milktree]

@milktree thank you for the info! That’s very interesting! What are the benefits of a hollow base bullet?

I've only seen hollow base bullets at the lighter end of the weight range, like 115gr and lighter.

The advantage is that you get a longer bearing surface, which makes neck tension more consistent, (which is important) and more barrel contact, which adds accuracy. Hollow base bullets allow you to get all that and still have a lightweight (fast) bullet. When you get into 124gr and heavier, there's plenty of length and it just doesn't matter that much.

Note that this is for *handgun* bullets.

Precision rifle bullets don't do this because they tend to be much more long than wide anyway, and a tapered ("boat tail") profile reduces drag; which matters a lot if you're trying to put all your bullets in a 6" circle at 600 yards.

 

[M1911a1g17]

@walter62 that’s pretty interesting the amount of difference there.

@milktree that makes sense. So you can go lighter without losing length.

Thank you guys

 

[TrashcanDan]

Invest in a chronograph….. that is a tool I think all who reload should have.

Best advice I've read this month.