8 year old shot in head at Westfield MG shoot

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Will Brink said:
Probable, and the entire thing sucks, but a man just saw his son blow his head off before his very eyes. Let's try a tad more compassion here. We were not there and don't have the facts to make such comments. It sounds like a string of bad decisions that added up to a freak accident, which happens. Yes, it will probably be us who pay a price. [sad2]
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+1. I was a bit put off my the Dad's calm demeanor on a video I saw last night. I wondered why he was in front of a camera so soon after his son's horrible death, and so calm ...

Maybe it takes some time for things to sink in. Emotional shock ... Everyone deals with personal loss in their own way. But he'll have to face this thing every day for the rest of his life, and he can't escape the responsibility for his own actions, or lack thereof.

We can argue ad nauseum about whether a drowning at a church picnic would result in calls for a ban on swimming, or on church picnics.

But it sure looks like a big hammer is going to fall on organized shoots, starting with MG shoots.

And that is what we have to prepare for.
 
EddieCoyle said:
No offense, but this is the stupidest f-ing comment I've seen posted on this forum in a year.

Congratulations, you've just unseated Cap'n Walt. -3 for that. Go ahead and hit me back.
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Jeez, calm down man. What is all this hostility toward the father? I am sure he didnt wake up that morning expecting to bury his son. Lets just all agree that this was a terrible tragedy for everyone involved.
 
Glockaholic said:
The Dr Dad is an IDIOT and he deserves the lifetime of hell he has brought upon himself.
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Because I am a better person than you have just demonstrated that you are, I hope with all the sincerity in my heart that you never make a mistake that leads to your own child's death. -1 from me too.
 
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Will Brink said:
Probable, and the entire thing sucks, but a man just saw his son blow his head off before his very eyes. Let's try a tad more compassion here. We were not there and don't have the facts to make such comments. It sounds like a string of bad decisions that added up to a freak accident, which happens. Yes, it will probably be us who pay a price. [sad2]
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When the father cannot accept responsibility for his own actions and try and place blame on others I lose all compassion for him. The RO and the "instructor" are both at fault, but they are not the sole contributors to this incident. I really and truely hope his potential lawsuit is shot down.
 
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NWanner said:
When the father cannot accept responsibility for his own actions and try and place blame on others I lose all compassion for him.
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I'm not going to judge a guy that just saw his kid die right in front of him. I don't know what I'd do in that situation and neither do you.
 
One sound bite I heard on the news from some lawmaker is that "we should not have children under 21 allowed to handle assault rifles". As bad as this is, it will probably get worse.
 
NWanner said:
When the father cannot accept responsibility for his own actions and try and place blame on others I lose all compassion for him. The RO and the "instructor" are both at fault, but they are not the sole contributors to this incident. I really and truely hope his potential lawsuit is shot down.
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Sorry, I completely disagree.

I began taking my boys to machine gun events years ago. There is a certain amount of faith you have to have in such situations as a parent. They had procedures in place that have worked a million times. This time it didn't because the operator of that machine gun failed, period.

The father didn't do anything wrong.

I once put my six year old son on a ride at Six Flags with the faith that the people to whom I entrusted his safety knew what they were doing. The ride got stuck with him at the top crying and screaming in terror. It was a horrible event, but was it my fault as a parent?

No.

Every decision in this world is made in hindsight. When you figure out how to predict the future please let the rest of us know
 
EddieCoyle said:
I'm not going to judge a guy that just saw his kid die right in front of him. I don't know what I'd do in that situation and neither do you.
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You are absolutely correct. I just tend to have a harsh attitude towards stupid people who do stupid things. I should probably work on that whole "compassionate person thing".
 
News Shooter said:
Sorry, I completely disagree.

I began taking my boys to machine gun events years ago. There is a certain amount of faith you have to have in such situations as a parent. They had procedures in place that have worked a million times. This time it didn't because the operator of that machine gun failed, period.

The father didn't do anything wrong.

I once put my six year old son on a ride at Six Flags with the faith that the people to whom I entrusted his safety knew what they were doing. The ride got stuck with him at the top crying and screaming in terror. It was a horrible event, but was it my fault as a parent?

No.

Every decision in this world is made in hindsight. When you figure out how to predict the future please let the rest of us know
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The father admitted himself about not know the capabilities of the firearm he was allowing his son to shoot. He was actually quoted saying the he chose the microUZI because it was a "small gun with little recoil". The guy is a moron and even Scriv's personal interaction with the guy further support this ascertation. I do have compassion towards the child who lost his life and the family, friends, and those involved, but the father is still as much at fault as the RO and UZI operator. Yet, in typical American (and human) fashion, he is trying to place the blame soley on others instead of admitting his own faults. I'm not say he deserved to lose a son, but he does need to admit his faults.
 
I've been deliberately avoiding this thread, but in case ya'll are interested, the blowhards at the Brady Campaign have picked up this story and are running with it...

(if this has already been posted, my apologies. I'm not about to read through 368 posts).

News Release

Massachusetts "Gun Fair" Where Child
Was Killed With Machine Gun
May Have Violated Gun Law

Massachusetts law prohibits furnishing machine gun to persons under 18
For Immediate Release:
10-28-2008

Contact Communications:
(202) 289-7319 Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Washington, DC - The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is calling on law enforcement to investigate whether a “gun fair” that hosted a machine gun shoot for children where an 8 year old boy was tragically killed violated a Massachusetts gun law that makes it illegal to furnish machine guns to children.

“Massachusetts law specifically prohibits furnishing a machine gun to any person under 18,” said Daniel Vice, Senior Attorney with the Brady Center. “It is unconscionable that the gun fair allowed and encouraged young children to fire machine guns.”

The relevant statute can be found in Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 140, subsection 130 and provides that “whoever sells or furnishes any alien or any person under eighteen years of age a… machine gun or ammunition… shall be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000, or by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than ten years or by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than two and one-half years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.” (Emphasis added.)

Brady Center President Paul Helmke said the appropriate authorities should investigate whether to file charges against the operator of the Westfield, Massachusetts Sportsman’s Club’s annual “Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo,” where Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Connecticut died Sunday. The club advertised that the “full auto rock & roll” was “legal and fun,” and that there was “no age limit or licenses required to shoot machine guns.”

“This needs to be looked at by the authorities and, if it is not illegal, then it should be made illegal. It’s tragic that this boy was killed because some people didn’t realize that eight year olds should not be allowed to shoot machine guns,” Helmke said. “Responsible gun owners should agree.”
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http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=1078

We now return to our regularly scheduled bickering. [thinking]
 
LoginName said:
I've been deliberately avoiding this thread, but in case ya'll are interested, the blowhards at the Brady Campaign have picked up this story and are running with it.
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While the spin in that 'news release' is nauseating, they do have a legal point. It appears that § 130 does not allow a parent/guardian or instructor with permission to furnish anyone under 18 years old with a machine gun.
 
jdubois said:
While I agree that the end result (only those who possess MG licenses can touch a MG) is bogus, this is just simply not a case of implying that if a law doesn't say it's ok, that it's be default illegal as you guys are implying. It is a case of liberally interpreting a prohibition that is very much and specifically written into the law.
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I was just hearing this on NPR tonight. They said they were planning on bringing charges because there was no law that allowed for a child to use a machine gun. If this is true, why are they trying to legislate it to be illegal?

Or is it "It's illegal if we don't allow it, and illegal if we legislate it."?

I like NH. If there is no law against it, it's 100% legal.
 
doobie said:
I was just hearing this on NPR tonight. They said they were planning on bringing charges because there was no law that allowed for a child to use a machine gun. If this is true, why are they trying to legislate it to be illegal?
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It's not that there is no law that allows a child to use a machine gun. It's that it now appears there are possibly a few laws that specifically forbid it (C269 S 10(c) & C140 S 130). As to why they're trying to legislate something that is effectively already there or why they're pretending that laws need to allow something for it to be legal? I don't know. Ignorance? Political blustering?
 
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"Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 140, subsection 130 and provides that “whoever sells or furnishes any alien or any person under eighteen years of age a… machine gun or ammunition… shall be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000, or by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than ten years or by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than two and one-half years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.”

If this is true, I think some members should go through their posted pics and remove some...
 
LoginName said:
I've been deliberately avoiding this thread, but in case ya'll are interested, the blowhards at the Brady Campaign have picked up this story and are running with it...

(if this has already been posted, my apologies. I'm not about to read through 368 posts).



http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=1078

We now return to our regularly scheduled bickering. [thinking]
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It seems to me that we need to know the definition of "furnish"....at Westfield you rent the firearms you'd like to shoot....
I think what the law refers to is giving or loaning a MG to someone.
Just my two cents...
 
Big Duke Six said:
It seems to me that we need to know the definition of "furnish"....at Westfield you rent the firearms you'd like to shoot....
I think what the law refers to is giving or loaning a MG to someone.
Just my two cents...
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And if you rent a car, tool or apartment, is it not "furnished" to you? If not, how could you possibly use it?
 
Big Duke Six said:
It seems to me that we need to know the definition of "furnish"....at Westfield you rent the firearms you'd like to shoot....
I think what the law refers to is giving or loaning a MG to someone.
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Keep reading the rest of the section, they talk about 'supervised use' which is exactly what this situation was. It makes some exceptions for supervised use of a rifle or shotgun, but not a firearm or machine gun.
 
biff44 said:
One sound bite I heard on the news from some lawmaker is that "we should not have children under 21 allowed to handle assault rifles". As bad as this is, it will probably get worse.
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I would have less issues with preventing children under 21 from being able to sit behind 2-3 tons of moving metal (aka the car) which kills thousands than I would for such a gun law. Crap, there we go again, using facts and common sense....
 
Palladin said:
I watched 3/4's of the interview with the father and I have to say, were that my son, I would have been in a closet with a .45 in my mouth; rather than talking to NECN. It may be the fact that he's a doctor and that he's used to/experienced death on a different level than I, but less than 24hrs after his 8yo son's death he seemed quiite composed and lucid.
I agree with Scriv, if he's not divorced within a year I'll be amazed..

I just cannot fathom the calm reaction during the interview...I have 5 kids, 3 under 10 yo. I would never hand my 10yo, who shoots, a micro; intelligent people make bad mistakes
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He seemed eerily calm to me too.
 
At this point it's probably immaterial if any current laws were specifically broken or not... the legislature will pass a new bill prohibiting minors from any access to full-auto firearms (there was no need to renew the MA AWB, but they did it anyways).

My concern is that one or more of the more rabid anti-rkba asshats will take the opportunity to use it as a vehicle to attach/amend other gun control bills to. [thinking]
 
Lugnut said:
He seemed eerily calm to me too.
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I had this conversation with my father this evening, and i told him that its hard to say whats going on in his head. He very well may have just "checked out" some people in the face of tragedy lose all comprehension of whats even going on...... behind closed doors he very well may be inconsolable.... this is just sad...[halfmast]
 
Scrivener said:
And if you rent a car, tool or apartment, is it not "furnished" to you? If not, how could you possibly use it?
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Yikes sounds like this is one of those things that is open to interpretation, effectively allowing the powers to be to decide if this was illegal..... that's just my take on it [hmmm]
 
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