3gun at S&W January 22, 2006

[NickW]

Chris Szczygiel will be running a 3gun match at S&W on January 22, 2006. Must pre-reg. Limited to 80 shooters. $30 entry fee if paid before Jan. 3rd. Contact Judith (his better half) if you are interested.

Judith Email: [email protected]

Best,
Nick-

 

[Ozman]

I've been wanting to try one of these for a while now, so maybe some of the more experienced folks out there can share some advice with the rest of us.

Any tips on how to make your first three gun match go smoother? It being inside, are there restrictions on the type of ammo that have to be used? What to expect in general regarding the courses of fire?

What about suggested/allowed equipment? I'll be shooting my 20" AR HBAR, (unless I get a 16" upper for it before then, which is doubtful) an 18" 870 with extended mag tube, and either a G22 or Beretta 96. Is this finally my excuse to get one of those high speed low drag leg/thigh holsters or do people stick with regular belt holsters for their pistols?

As always, thanks.

Steve

 

[GTOShootr]

I'm not a big 3gun competitor but I've researched it a bunch and have my gear ready to go. NickW could chime in. He just got back from a stellar performance at a big 3gun match at Ft. Benning in Georgia and knows far more than me.

I think you want to stick with a belt holster for both speed and compliance with rules. Go with whatever pistol you shoot better.

Most people will be using autoloaders for shotguns but a pump is within the rules and you definitely won't have to worry about reliability.

For the rifle, and the shotgun with slugs, the most important thing is knowing your zero, both at distance and close up. Since S&W has the 100 yard "tunnel," you'll probably see a variety of distances.

Look around the 3gun forum on www.brianenos.com/forums

 

[GTOShootr]

This looks good too:

http://www.3gunrules.com/gettingstarted.php

 

[NickW]

3gun basics

Hi Steve,
You are ready to compete with what you have. Another good place to learn about 3gun, the equipment and rules is http://www.3gunrules.com/

I'd hold off buying a bunch of equip. until you know what you want. It will save you $$ in the long run.

In a nut shell- 3 gun or multi gun (transition between 2 or 3 guns in the same stage) is basically a USPSA or IDPA match, but with 3 guns.

Most matches have three divisions:
Limited (iron sights on all guns, certain comps OK for rifle)
Tactical (iron sights on pistol and shotgun, one optic on your rifle, certain comps OK for rifle)
Open (anything goes- optics on every gun, any comp on rifle / pistol, porting OK on shotgun.)

Pistols are usually semi-auto. Single action 1911 style is probably the most popular, but there are plenty of production style guns being used. Some matches require a major caliber handgun, but some allow major or minor guns. Most shooters use some type of kydex belt holster and mag pouches in Limited and Tacticl Div.. Open div. shooers use the race rigs.

Rifles are normally some .223 AR15 variant. Your Hbar will work fine. If you don't use an optic, you would be in Limited div.

Shotguns are normally semi-autos (Benelli, Winchester, and Remington being the most popular.) In limited and tactical, shotguns are usually limited to 8rnd mag tubes. Open allows as many rounds as you can stuff in the gun.

There is also another up and coming division called He Man or Heavy Metal. This division requires the use of a single stack 1911 .45acp pistol, a pump 12ga. shotgun, and semi-auto .308cal or larger rifle. Have not seen any matches offering this division in the NE, but it is popular out West at the bigger 3gun matches.

You will need a few pouches to hold your rifle mags (can always use your back pocket until you decide what you like). I like the T-rig from www.3gungear.com. I carry two primary mags on my left thigh and a 3rd emergency mag in a comp-tac kydex mag pouch behind my left hip. This leaves my belt open for pistol mags and shotshells.

You will also need a means of reloading your shotgun (shell holder). I'm not going to tell you how to do this as there are several different methods (week hand, strong hand, California Comp Works carriers, 3gungear arm bands, side-saddles, etc.). This is something you need to work out yourself as folks are comfortable with different methods.

There is a learning curve to the game and getting set up with equip., but it is definetly worth it. Come with a good attitude and you will have a lot of fun. I've been shooting for a long time and tried a bunch of games. 3gun or multi gun is the most fun I've had yet.

As GTOShootr mentioned, check out 3gun section at BE.COM. I learned a ton by reading through this area.

Hope this helps,
Nick-

 

[Ozman]

Great stuff!

A quick look at the 3gunrules page says suggests a half dozen 30 round mags. Sound right Nick?

(I've got a feeling my productivity is going to drop to about zero for the rest of the day...)

Steve

 

[Cledus J. Crabb]

Geeeez,
This could be a good reason for me to go out and get one of them 870 shotguns at Four Seasons!
Already got the AR15A2 & the 1911A1.

 

[Ozman]

Geeeez,
This could be a good reason for me to go out and get one of them 870 shotguns at Four Seasons!
Already got the AR15A2 & the 1911A1.

You're right! It'd be wrong not to.!

FWIW, the more I see, the better than deal Carl has on these looks all the time. It's a sweet package for only $289.00 Perfect HD gun.

Steve[/b]

 

[GTOShootr]

I would think you could get by with fewer mags. I can't imagine needing more than two in a stage, and that is probably if it called for a manatory reload. It would be nice to have more just to have them loaded up ahead of time.

 

[NickW]

mags

I usually have (5) rifle mags in my bag for a local match. I have three on my person when I go to the line. I load one and have two for reloads if necessary. You could get by with (3) mags, but if a few hit the beach hard and get real dirty, it would be nice to have extra clean mags.
Hope this helps,
Nick-

P.S. For those wanting to the best rifles and shotguns, I'd recommend JP Rifles www.jprifles.com and Triangle Shooting Sports http://www.triangleshootingsports.com/. Benny Hill from Triangle SS is building a rifle for my son now. I shoot one of his Benelli M1 shotguns set up for 3gun. I also run a rifle from JP. Both shop owners are 3gun shooters and know what works. Either shop will hook you up with the best stuff out there, but please do not think it is not necessary to have this high end gear to shoot 3gun. N-

 

[Ozman]

Re: mags

I usually have (5) rifle mags in my bag for a local match. I have three on my person when I go to the line. I load one and have two for reloads if necessary. You could get by with (3) mags, but if a few hit the beach hard and get real dirty, it would be nice to have extra clean mags.

Gotcha. But you definately recommend 30 round mags, correct? I have one now and the rest are 20's. Any reason to "justify" new purchases works for me

Of what I can see, nice stuff at the JP website. Having trouble getting some of the menu pages to open. Those all-out race guns, while not my style, look wild.

Steve

 

[NickW]

mags

Ya, 30 rounders are your best bet. The idea is to reload less or not at all as this will save time which effects your score at some matches. I do run 20 rounders on occassions. Sometimes they will design a stage where it makes sense to start with or end with a 20 rounder.

The JP stuff is pretty wild looking and they shoot lights out. 1/4" or less at 50 yards is the norm with the right ammo with either the JP or TSS rifles. Do you need that kind of accuracy?? No. But it is nice to have. In reality, if your rifle shoots 1moa, you are good to go.

On a side note, I recommend a 50 yard rifle zero for 3gun. You will be dead on at 50 and 200 and about 8" low at 300yards. Inside of 50 yards your gun will shoot low because the bullet has not reached the the line of site yet. Remember this when shooting real close targets as you will need to hold slightly high.
N-

 

[TY43215]

Bring Plugs and muffs for the tunnels. They are loud and unforgiving. The 45 Round mag works great too

See you there,

 

[GTOShootr]

RGS, Ask your friend Craig how he liked ROing me with my open gun in the tunnel. [twisted] An AR with a muzzle brake has to be brutal. Doubling the ear protection is a good idea.

 

[Ozman]

Bring Plugs and muffs for the tunnels. They are loud and unforgiving. The 45 Round mag works great too

See you there,

Tunnels? What tunnels? [shock]

 

[GTOShootr]

It is a 100yard narrow range that looks like a tunnel. It is cold and dark. The close walls and the baffles on the ceiling make loud guns, like compensated race guns, louder.

They had a 55 yard stage in there at the IPSC pistol match.

 

[TY43215]

The tunnels are/were used for test firing, if I remember what I was told. They are just what they sound like, Tunnels made from concrete.

Steve, my 357SIG hurts the SO/RO more than your open gun for some reason. Last POSA match had some inexperienced ROs flinching bad. Electronic muffs just didn't cut it.

For those who want recommendations, I use Peltor Tac 6 electronics with EAR custom fit plugs that have filters installed under the muffs. Unknown what the actual DB rating is, but you could easily sneak up on me wearing bells. (Sorry for the thread drift)

 

[Ozman]

The tunnels are/were used for test firing, if I remember what I was told. They are just what they sound like, Tunnels made from concrete.

Well, you anticipated and answered my next question, which was "What are the tunnels for?" I had visions of some Cold War relic underground complex. While we're thread drifting: I went to Northeastern U., which has a system of tunnels connecting most of the original campus. It was great in the middle of the winter, but creepy when empty late at night. Would make a great setting for an IDPA COF though!

Back on subject: I am totally jazzed for this event at S&W. Always wanted to try 3-gun but until recently, didn't have three proper guns for it and also had not seen any events too close to home.

Sounds like doubling up on the hearing protection is in order. I had a brain fart last month at a CMP match and forgot to drop my ear cover back down before the next squad started and did not enjoy the sudden burst of .308/.223 volleys that started 10 feet from where I was standing.

Steve

 

[38supermatt]

a 357 sig louder than Steve's 9mm major open gun?
I'd want to hear that.
Steve's gun may not be the loudest I've ever heard, but it sure is close, he's one of two people I'll put the headphones on over the plugs when I'm ROing.

 

[TY43215]

a 357 sig louder than Steve's 9mm major open gun?
I'd want to hear that.
Steve's gun may not be the loudest I've ever heard, but it sure is close, he's one of two people I'll put the headphones on over the plugs when I'm ROing.

Those Gold Dots are tough I'll bring the Polymer Sig some time if I can remember how to get the moon clips in it [lol]

 

[GTOShootr]

For anyone who was interested the 3gun match and perhaps does not have all of the equipment yet or is too far from Springfield, no worries. Remember that the first IPSC match at AFS in North Attleboro is also on January 22nd. I don't mean to try to steal any competitors away. Just know that pretty much wherever you live in MA or RI, you don't have an excuse for not shooting a match within a short drive on January 22nd. A choice between two practical shooting matches? Not too bad for MA!. AFS is pistol only.

Steve

 

[NickW]

Some info on the match.......

I saw Chris S. (match director) a few days ago and he told me the 3gun match is going to be very basic so new shooters to the game are comfortable. No multigun....in that there will be no transition to different guns in the same stage :-(

According to Chris, there will be no rifle steel targets :-(, just paper targets.

Shotgun will be both steel and paper. Ammo needed for shotgun is birdshot (steel) and slugs for paper targets. He did say there would be 85 yard slug shots, so know where your slugs are hitting. As a rule of thumb, if you are 3" high at 50 yards, you will be dead on at 100 yards. He also said that if anyone shoots his steel with a slug, they will become a spectator.

Thats all I got.
Best,
Nick-

 

[MAShooter]

Does anyone know if this will follow USPSA rules (scoring in particular) or will it be time-plus (IMG rules)?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I don't mean to try to steal any competitor

It was never the intent of the gorup setting up events at AFS to steal competitors away from the S&W crew (which has a great track record of excellent matches). The S&W match was not on the sectional schedule at the time the AFS dates were set, and the Section Coordinator was not aware of any event on the AFS dates at the time he was asked for his approval.

Besides, the AFS January match is already booked full.

 

[NickW]

scoring

Chris told me they will be using a time / plus system to score the 3gun match.
Nick-

 

[Ozman]

Stupid question at 1:00 a.m., but if anyone is up, can you tell me what time this starts? I am pre-registered but can't seem to remember what time registration opens and the fun begins.

Thanks

Steve

 

[GTOShootr]

Matches there usually start at 9 or 9:30. I like to get there as early as possible to look over the stages.