21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

I think we (our schools) are more vulnerable than ever with all of the people coming into our country that hate America. Not to mention all of the race division being sowed by the media. I think knowing that armed personnel are inside would deter some people. Without armed guards they are literally an unstoppable predator in a target rich environment.
 
Choctaw said:
I think we (our schools) are more vulnerable than ever with all of the people coming into our country that hate America. Not to mention all of the race division being sowed by the media. I think knowing that armed personnel are inside would deter some people. Without armed guards they are literally an unstoppable predator in a target rich environment.
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I think the big problem is that the media makes a 24x7 sensation in order to get eyeballs, out of an extremely rare event, which encourages people to think about doing similar copycat activities. People are crazy imitative for what they see in media when it is glorified and repeated endlessly, even if it is idiotic and soul-destroying, how else do you explain Kardashians.
 
www.yahoo.com

Uvalde shooting police response was "a failure that should not have happened," Garland says

The Department of Justice has released a report Thursday on the law enforcement response to the 2022 Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, Texas. Attorney General Merrick Garland said a series of failures contributed to breakdowns during all phases of the response. Felipe Rodriguez, a...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com


www.yahoo.com

After 604 days, Uvalde families finally have DOJ's long-awaited school shooting report

The 500-page report comes as residents of Uvalde are still demanding accountability for a series of failures that compounded the tragedy.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
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They waited 75 minutes for a key because not one of those cocksuckers had the intelligence or nerve to try the handle.

Door doesn't open? Shoot out the damn lock and kick in the door.

Cowards, to a man. There haven't been remotely enough resignations or suicides from regional law enforcement to begin the needed accounting for their collective lack of action.
 
Wooderson said:
They waited 75 minutes for a key because not one of those cocksuckers had the intelligence or nerve to try the handle.

Door doesn't open? Shoot out the damn lock and kick in the door.

Cowards, to a man. There haven't been remotely enough resignations or suicides from regional law enforcement to begin the needed accounting for their collective lack of action.
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I simply can not fathom what some of those officers tell themselves to sleep through the night, about that situation and the kids who bled to death waiting for help. Christ, 16 years ago I was 10 seconds too slow going through a door, and I still have nightmares about it. I just can't figure out how any of them are still doing the job like nothing happened.
 
hillman said:
I simply can not fathom what some of those officers tell themselves to sleep through the night, about that situation and the kids who bled to death waiting for help. Christ, 16 years ago I was 10 seconds too slow going through a door, and I still have nightmares about it. I just can't figure out how any of them are still doing the job like nothing happened.
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I made it home safe.

It is drilled into them on Day 1 as top priority.
 
Choctaw said:
I think we (our schools) are more vulnerable than ever with all of the people coming into our country that hate America. Not to mention all of the race division being sowed by the media. I think knowing that armed personnel are inside would deter some people. Without armed guards they are literally an unstoppable predator in a target rich environment.
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I can’t think of a single school shooting that was driven by “hate of America”. Everyone that I can think of was committed by some whackjob, usually one who was bullied at school.
 
M1911 said:
I can’t think of a single school shooting that was driven by “hate of America”. Everyone that I can think of was committed by some whackjob, usually one who was bullied at school.
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I agree that up to this point they have all been mentally unstable people. I was implying that schools are a soft target. We live in unprecedented times. Never before in our history have we had so many people enter our country unvetted. They have caught quite a few known terrorists crossing the border. How many were not caught? The only reason a terrorist would come here is to attack something.

I wasn't saying that is the sole reason to justify having armed security in schools but it does add to the justification. I guess I don't see the downside of having a guard in a school. As hminsky mentioned it is a very rare event. But is does happen, it has happened.

This thread was created to discuss the Ulvade school shooting and the total dysfunctional police response. A good bit of that is about the horrendous delay entering the building. Would one guard inside have made a difference? Would that person do the right thing when called upon? We would all like to think that we would run toward the gunfire and make a difference. None of us knows for sure until that moment happens. Unless they hire combat vets it would be difficult to screen for that in a job interview.
 
M1911 said:
I can’t think of a single school shooting that was driven by “hate of America”. Everyone that I can think of was committed by some whackjob, usually one who was bullied at school.
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As someone who got told regularly in high school I was going to shoot up the school, one of the last questions I posed to my "schoolmates" who told me this constantly, was (paraphrasing here)

"If you actually believe that, why would you antagonize me day in day out? Are you suicidal?"


I never got an answer, and I dropped out for the second time shortly thereafter, got my GED, continued on in my life. As I saw familiar names pop up in obituaries over the past 18 years, I felt ambivalent. It's sad when someone dies young, but I have to weigh that against how what was supposed to be a fun time in my life got turned into as close to hell as I've experienced, for no other reason than someone else's entertainment.... and I wasn't the only one.

None of this should be taken as me condoning any shooter, ever. Your hurt feelings don't justify killing someone.
 
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Choctaw said:
I agree that up to this point they have all been mentally unstable people. I was implying that schools are a soft target. We live in unprecedented times. Never before in our history have we had so many people enter our country unvetted. They have caught quite a few known terrorists crossing the border. How many were not caught? The only reason a terrorist would come here is to attack something.

I wasn't saying that is the sole reason to justify having armed security in schools but it does add to the justification. I guess I don't see the downside of having a guard in a school. As hminsky mentioned it is a very rare event. But is does happen, it has happened.

This thread was created to discuss the Ulvade school shooting and the total dysfunctional police response. A good bit of that is about the horrendous delay entering the building. Would one guard inside have made a difference? Would that person do the right thing when called upon? We would all like to think that we would run toward the gunfire and make a difference. None of us knows for sure until that moment happens. Unless they hire combat vets it would be difficult to screen for that in a job interview.
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I've posted many times that I think the best solution is to allow interested teachers to carry, which costs nothing and is within a building principal's power in MA and many other states. Almost any other solution is either too unreliable, too expensive, or too risky.

Having an SRO helps GREATLY, but as you point out it needs to be the right person; I've worked with good ones and bad ones. The thing to remember about SROs is that "confronting a school shooter" is only their worst-case scenario; they wear many, many other hats around the building, and sometimes that skillset doesn't mesh with the kind of courage that's needed during a school shooting.

The key (and I think about this specific situation a GREAT deal, for obvious reasons) is that the person who's armed has to care about the kids in the school. They're not going to be motivated to take a pistol and go up against a rifle merely by money.

The Uvalde response was VERY weird on a lot of levels, compared to other school-shooter responses over the years. Usually, the cops do a lot better.
 
Picton said:
I've posted many times that I think the best solution is to allow interested teachers to carry, which costs nothing and is within a building principal's power in MA and many other states. Almost any other solution is either too unreliable, too expensive, or too risky.

Having an SRO helps GREATLY, but as you point out it needs to be the right person; I've worked with good ones and bad ones. The thing to remember about SROs is that "confronting a school shooter" is only their worst-case scenario; they wear many, many other hats around the building, and sometimes that skillset doesn't mesh with the kind of courage that's needed during a school shooting.

The key (and I think about this specific situation a GREAT deal, for obvious reasons) is that the person who's armed has to care about the kids in the school. They're not going to be motivated to take a pistol and go up against a rifle merely by money.

The Uvalde response was VERY weird on a lot of levels, compared to other school-shooter responses over the years. Usually, the cops do a lot better.
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Uvalde and Parkland.
 
Agnotology said:
Uvalde and Parkland.
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Yes. And there are probably a dozen or so shootings where the police did the right thing.

I'm very critical of the police on here, but more often than not they acquit themselves decently during school shootings. But the Uvalde failure is literally unforgivable.
 
Picton said:
Yes. And there are probably a dozen or so shootings where the police did the right thing.

I'm very critical of the police on here, but more often than not they acquit themselves decently during school shootings. But the Uvalde failure is literally unforgivable.
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Was there something I'm unaware of that makes Uvalde worse than Parkland?
 
Agnotology said:
Was there something I'm unaware of that makes Uvalde worse than Parkland?
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To me? Yes.

Uvalde went on longer, the shooter was much more contained and should have been easier to take down, it featured dozens of heavily armed grownups on the other side of a single wall from the shooter, and it played out in real-time with parents and other officials who knew exactly what was happening and urged faster efforts, which was the right thing to do.

Parkland was a more difficult tactical problem, in that there were multiple possible buildings in which the shooter could have been located, and it was a MUCH more difficult scene to secure. Uvalde should have been an absolute slam-dunk for two or three responding LEOs.

Also, Parkland was a high school. I generally think elementary shootings are "worse than" HS shootings, in that adolescent victims have greater agency and a better ability to get away. Elementary kids are usually sitting ducks.
 
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Picton said:
To me? Yes.

Uvalde went on longer, the shooter was much more contained and should have been easier to take down, it featured dozens of heavily armed grownups on the other side of a single wall from the shooter, and it played out in real-time with parents and other officials who knew exactly what was happening and urged faster efforts, which was the right thing to do.

Parkland was a more difficult tactical problem, in that there were multiple possible buildings in which the shooter could have been located, and it was a MUCH more difficult scene to secure. Uvalde should have been an absolute slam-dunk for two or three responding LEOs.

Also, Parkland was a high school. I generally think elementary shootings are "worse than" HS shootings, in that adolescent victims have greater agency and a better ability to get away. Elementary kids are usually sitting ducks.
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Yeah, I see what you are thinking, with Parkland the shooter ran away with the students, was trying to survive. Uvalde had a shooter that engaged police - was ready and willing to die.
 
Agnotology said:
Yeah, I see what you are thinking, with Parkland the shooter ran away with the students, was trying to survive. Uvalde had a shooter that engaged police - was ready and willing to die.
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I'm thinking less about the shooter than about the LE response.

It's true that the Parkland SRO behaved in a cowardly way. He then gave a bad report to the rest of the responding officers. They were operating in a very fluid situation, with conflicting information, at a cluster of buildings that required many, many possible contingencies. Under those circumstances, I think it's understandable that they were cautious in their decisionmaking. It was the wrong move, but they didn't know that.

At Uvalde? The MFIC and every other LEO on that scene had a simple objective with a single shooter contained within a specific room, also packed with targets who couldn't escape. Those cops knew ALL of this. They had no excuse for not acting. They made the wrong move, and they knew it.

I honestly have no idea how they can live with themselves.
 
Picton said:
I've posted many times that I think the best solution is to allow interested teachers to carry, which costs nothing and is within a building principal's power in MA
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I believe the language in H.4139 eliminates that caveat, so if passed or taken up verbatim in the coming Senate bill then permission would no longer be an option.

🐯
 
CatSnoutSoup said:
I believe the language in H.4139 eliminates that caveat, so if passed or taken up verbatim in the coming Senate bill then permission would no longer be an option.

🐯
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Functionally, it already isn't. I'm unaware of any MA principal who's ever exercised that authority.
 
allen-1 said:
thehill.com

Law enforcement officers involved in Uvalde shooting response failure win their primaries

Two law enforcement officers who were involved with the police response failure to the Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, Texas, won their respective Republican primaries Tuesday. Sheriff R…
thehill.com thehill.com
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“In February, Robb Elementary families attended a debate hoping to demand answers from Nolasco and Zamora, but they did not show up, News4 in San Antionio reported.”

So much fail.
 
allen-1 said:
thehill.com

Law enforcement officers involved in Uvalde shooting response failure win their primaries

Two law enforcement officers who were involved with the police response failure to the Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, Texas, won their respective Republican primaries Tuesday. Sheriff R…
thehill.com thehill.com
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My shocked face.

This is why I usually vote against the incumbent in races I don't care much about, just on general principles. Most voters will mindlessly keep voting in the same morons, even after they show how incompetent they are.

We (collectively, as a Republic) really do have the government we deserve.
 
I agree. We have the worst government on the planet. Except for all of the other ones, of course.

Picton said:
My shocked face.

This is why I usually vote against the incumbent in races I don't care much about, just on general principles. Most voters will mindlessly keep voting in the same morons, even after they show how incompetent they are.

We (collectively, as a Republic) really do have the government we deserve.
Click to expand...
 

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