21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

CatSnoutSoup said:
Example related to me today by source in a MA high school.
  • Physically doors can remain in a locked or unlocked state, but this can only be effected by a keyed cylinder on the hallway side of the door.
  • Within this source's department doors are always in a locked state.
  • However the doors are not closed they are held open by a wooden wedge under the door.
  • This allows ingress/egress but in the case of an intruder the wood wedge can quickly be kicked out from the door and the closure mechanism will close the door and it will be locked to anyone without a key (egress is still possible).
  • Unfortunately when there is a fire drill the teacher has to not only close the door but take the wooden wedge with them before evacuating with the students or the Fire Marshall will take the wedge; Marshall knows the doors are being propped but technically it is a code violation and his concern is fire not intruder deterrents. In the past I would say that a fire is more likely than an intruder but today who knows.


🐯
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We weren't taking door stops with us during fire drills.

All we did was make sure the teachers did what they were asked. There was usually 6 firefighters inspecting an entire school as fast as possible. If it wasn't a blatant violation we usually kept moving. If it was we noted it and the room number for the report.

Colleges and college dorms were another beast. We were heavy handed on dorm inspections because fires in dorms are more common than we'd like and College age people have the tendency to ignore fire drills and fire safety. I lost count if how many bozos I found hiding in the dorm during a drill.
 
KBCraig said:
I think many comments here are riffing off of suppositions not known to be true.

For instance: which doors were locked which way, and which doors were police trying or not trying?

Please don't think I'm defending the f***wads of the Uvalde ISD PD or the Uvalde PD. They deserve whatever hate you care to send.

I just wonder if people are arguing about a situation that they don't even know existed.

For instance:



Are we talking about a classroom door? Or a building egress door with a crash bar? Or, a building exit door that is one-way without a key from the outside?

I certainly don't know, and I haven't seen any news reports that make it clear. Meanwhile, people are arguing as if it's known definitively.
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In the line you quoted, I was referring to a "classroom lock" which is a type of lockset typically used in that setting. I thought it was obvious we were talking about the door to the classroom

A classroom function lockset is controlled by using a key in the outside cylinder. The inside lever always provides free egress. The outside lever can be locked or unlocked only by someone with the key. There is no pushbutton or thumbturn on the inside that could be used by a rowdy band of 7th grade seamstresses. This function is not just for classrooms…it can be used in any location where control over the locking/unlocking is more important than the convenience offered by a pushbutton or thumbturn (office function).
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WBBM Radio Chicago.

"At least 47 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend, 13 of them in just five hours late Sunday and early Monday.

An 11-year-old girl was shot in the leg in the Auburn Gresham area just after midnight Monday. Ten minutes later, a woman and two teens, 16 and 17, were wounded about half a mile away, according to Chicago police.

Five people were wounded in a mass shooting Friday evening when a gunman opened fire in a parking lot in the 30th and Rhodes.

Homicides

At least four people were killed in the weekend gun violence.

Sunday night, a 36-year-old woman was fatally shot in West Englewood on the South Side. She was on a sidewalk about 8:30 p.m. in the 6400 block of South Marshfield Avenue when someone opened fire, striking her in the head, Chicago police said. The woman was taken to the University of Chicago Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead."

 
Dench said:
I believe that was a SCOTUS ruling, right?
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Here are the two:

Castle Rock v. Gonzales

Particularly egregious. Woman has permanent restraining order against estranged husband. Husband kidnapped her three children. She calls police. They ignore her, tell her to call back later. She calls back later. They ignore it again. She goes to police station. They take a report but are otherwise busy, they need to go out to dinner. A couple hours later the guy murders the three kids and then goes to the PD himself and starts shooting.

CASTLE ROCK V. GONZALES

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

DeShaney v. Winnebago

DSS knows father is abusive. They do nothing. Father beats children into a comma leaving him permanently brain damaged.

supreme.justia.com

DeShaney v. Winnebago Cty. DSS, 489 U.S. 189 (1989)

DeShaney v. Winnebago Cty. DSS: The Fourteenth Amendment does not require the state to intervene in protecting residents from actions of private parties that may infringe on their life, liberty, and property.
supreme.justia.com supreme.justia.com

Both cases the court ruled the state has no obligation to protect anyones life, liberty, or property, even if the citizen has a court order.
 
Bonesinium said:
Here are the two:

Castle Rock v. Gonzales

Particularly egregious. Woman has permanent restraining order against estranged husband. Husband kidnapped her three children. She calls police. They ignore her, tell her to call back later. She calls back later. They ignore it again. She goes to police station. They take a report but are otherwise busy, they need to go out to dinner. A couple hours later the guy murders the three kids and then goes to the PD himself and starts shooting.

CASTLE ROCK V. GONZALES

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

DeShaney v. Winnebago

DSS knows father is abusive. They do nothing. Father beats children into a comma leaving him permanently brain damaged.

supreme.justia.com

DeShaney v. Winnebago Cty. DSS, 489 U.S. 189 (1989)

DeShaney v. Winnebago Cty. DSS: The Fourteenth Amendment does not require the state to intervene in protecting residents from actions of private parties that may infringe on their life, liberty, and property.
supreme.justia.com supreme.justia.com

Both cases the court ruled the state has no obligation to protect anyones life, liberty, or property, even if the citizen has a court order.
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Banana Republic right there.

People hate lawyers for a reason. it's not like they didn't beg to be hated.
 
weekendracer said:
I've never seen a shaped charge, 21 years, 3 sectors, worked with more than a dozen local agencies including USMS. It was never even discussed. Imagine chunks of C4 and the ignition source going missing from stations or vehicles. To add upon apparently, the basic training goes out the window about 1/2 the time as it is. I don't know the answer if people aren't going to resort to training. Until the peopled trained up actually use that training, the rest is just pissing in the wind.
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As someone pretty familiar with charges people watch way too many movies and have a distorted conception of reality.

No one is walking around with Semtex charges ready to be used. It’s a logistical nightmare with any type of explosive of any kind for anything,

There are plenty of more traditional ways to open those doors unless they are built like heavy vault door with more traditional ways of breaching that even a GED graduate cop 👮‍♀️ can operate with a degree of success.
 
Bonesinium said:
Here are the two:

Castle Rock v. Gonzales

Particularly egregious. Woman has permanent restraining order against estranged husband. Husband kidnapped her three children. She calls police. They ignore her, tell her to call back later. She calls back later. They ignore it again. She goes to police station. They take a report but are otherwise busy, they need to go out to dinner. A couple hours later the guy murders the three kids and then goes to the PD himself and starts shooting.

CASTLE ROCK V. GONZALES

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

DeShaney v. Winnebago

DSS knows father is abusive. They do nothing. Father beats children into a comma leaving him permanently brain damaged.

supreme.justia.com

DeShaney v. Winnebago Cty. DSS, 489 U.S. 189 (1989)

DeShaney v. Winnebago Cty. DSS: The Fourteenth Amendment does not require the state to intervene in protecting residents from actions of private parties that may infringe on their life, liberty, and property.
supreme.justia.com supreme.justia.com

Both cases the court ruled the state has no obligation to protect anyones life, liberty, or property, even if the citizen has a court order.
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I wonder if the Castle Rock case will be brought into the Bruen case as if the state has no obligation to protect you then the state also has no right to refuse your ability to protect yourself, even with firearms.
 
Artifact said:
As someone pretty familiar with charges people watch way too many movies and have a distorted conception of reality.

No one is walking around with Semtex charges ready to be used. It’s a logistical nightmare with any type of explosive of any kind for anything,

There are plenty of more traditional ways to open those doors unless they are built like heavy vault door with more traditional ways of breaching that even a GED graduate cop 👮‍♀️ can operate with a degree of success.
Click to expand...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O74Q1VTz4j4
 
I’m going to quote from the NH Constitution. I believe it’s in my signature.

When men enter into a state of society, they surrender up some of their natural rights to that society, in order to ensure the protection of others; and, without such an equivalent, the surrender is void.

And this is where we are today. I suggest that police are illegitimate. We are forced to give up many of our rights under the auspices of the greater good, a better society. Yet we get nothing in return. Can’t defend yourself. Can’t defend others. And not only will police refuse to defend anyone but they will actively prevent anyone who tries.
 
This reminds me of an incident from probably 5 years ago. A Polish guy with some sort of mental crisis tries to drown himself at a public pool he’s working at. 6-8 cops arrive on scene and try and talk sense into him. He doesn’t listen and goes in and under water. Police refuse to help and order a lifeguard not to save him.

Fortunately the lifeguard disobeys them and goes in and saves the man. Only after he’s pulled the now unconscious man from the bottom to the surface and side of pool do some cops go in.

Later the police would claim they jumped in to save him themselves “within seconds”. Then a video comes out showing they stood around while he was under water for nearly three minutes.

Then they claim they let the lifeguard go in because he’s trained and they are not. It then is shown they ordered him not to.

Then they claimed they ordered him not to for his safety.

This is and has been the mentality of police for a long time.
 
Bonesinium said:
This reminds me of an incident from probably 5 years ago. A Polish guy with some sort of mental crisis tries to drown himself at a public pool he’s working at. 6-8 cops arrive on scene and try and talk sense into him. He doesn’t listen and goes in and under water. Police refuse to help and order a lifeguard not to save him.

Fortunately the lifeguard disobeys them and goes in and saves the man. Only after he’s pulled the now unconscious man from the bottom to the surface and side of pool do some cops go in.

Later the police would claim they jumped in to save him themselves “within seconds”. Then a video comes out showing they stood around while he was under water for nearly three minutes.

Then they claim they let the lifeguard go in because he’s trained and they are not. It then is shown they ordered him not to.

Then they claimed they ordered him not to for his safety.

This is and has been the mentality of police for a long time.
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How can someone just stand there and watch someone die in a situation like this or Uvalde. Compare these cops to the 2 in California that got killed, they didn't hesitate to go into danger.
 
Dadstoys said:
I see a ballistic shield right there .
And you waiting for what you chickenshit MF'ers ?
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"Orders, we were itching to go, we were begging the IC to give us the go signal!"

(even tho in an active shooter situation the go signal is omnipresent and no order need be given)

At the very least Brietbart has outed itself as a cop apologist operation because within a day they posted an article saying police were waiting for a shield and for 60 out of the 77 minutes there was one there.
 
I mean, I get it. People react differently under stress and you often don’t know how you’ll react until you are actually in that stressful situation. But for there to be what, dozens of cops there, many with plates and rifles and a shield, and ALL of them were too scared to do anything? That goes beyond anything comprensible.

I’ve said it before. And I’ll say it again. When you VOLUNTARILY choose to become a cop, if it turns out, you do not handle stress well, you quit. You find a new line of work. Policing isn’t for you. The fact I haven’t heard about any of these cops quitting yet tells me they are not only cowards under stress, but also exhibit moral cowardice. Too scared to act AND such little integrity to admit it to yourself and resign? These have got to be some of the biggest scumbags on the planet.

There are many people who’d have trouble even living with themselves if they let dozens of children die. And these pussies aren’t even man enough to turn in their badges and retain even the smallest amount of dignity.
 

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