2011 Annual Cast Bullet Workshop - May 21st 2011 - Shirley Rod & Gun Club

[Slowdive]

Very well done guys!

This was a great event, I can't thank our host and instructors enough, very well planned and executed at a spectacular venue. Learned a ton.

Thanks to Duke, Marcus, and Bob for the sessions, sharing your knowledge and gear...I enjoyed them all. Thanks to EC and the Shirley GC for the hospitality, you have a gem of a club...and thanks to Goose for bringing the 500gn 45/70 mold, looking forward to loading these up, they came out great.

Great to meet you all.

I have a hell of a shopping list now...

 

[JackO]

Duke, Bob, Mark, EC, and a host club, I can't thank you enough for the great workshop! What a great bunch of guys and an unbelievable amount of knowledge! The workshop was very well prepared and organized. I learned so much in one day. And it was such a pleasure to see and spend some quality time with nice folks NESers.

Guys, thank you so much for all the efforts you put into making this happen.

 

[HiggityHank]

Duke, Mark, Bob, Jim: Thank you guys very much for taking a LOT (damn near all of it) of the mystery out of this process, and showing us all how easy it can be to save a boatload of cash. So again, thank you for the generous use of your time, knowledge, equipment, and club, and Goose: thanks for stepping in to teach some casting when a pair of slackers took off.

As always it was great to see the folks I know, and it was very nice to meet the new folks I met today.

 

[wtfooptimax200]

Thanks to everyone that made this amazing event possible. My brother and I truly enjoyed ourselves. We picked up more knowledge in one day than I have by countless hours of watching youtube videos and scouring the internet. There is nothing like hands-on experience.

If this event continues I would certainly like to help in any way that I can.

Thanks again to everyone for their knowledge and hospitality!

Branden

 

[EddieCoyle]

Many thanks to Duke, Bob J, and Mark for putting this on. You guys did an amazing job (as always).

 

[The Goose]

Like everyone else, a huge thank you to Duke, Bob and Mark for setting up such an outstanding program. Very well done. Also thanks to Jim for setting this up at the Shirley Rod & Gun Club. I would also like to thank everyone else who participated and contributed. There was a wealth of knowledge at this workshop and not just from the great teachers. Every single person at the workshop had something to contribute. I was humbled by the level of expertise of each and every attendee.

 

[01SVTvert]

Forgot to mention. I hope someone took home the orange bucket with a few pounds of wheel weights in it. I grabbed everything and only after we left did did my son and I relaize that we had left the bucket somewhere.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

I was one of the last people to leave, and didn't see your orange bucket.
Someone else might have picked it up before I left.

Forgot to mention. I hope someone took home the orange bucket with a few pounds of wheel weights in it. I grabbed everything and only after we left did did my son and I relaize that we had left the bucket somewhere.

 

[Ziptar]

Forgot to mention. I hope someone took home the orange bucket with a few pounds of wheel weights in it. I grabbed everything and only after we left did did my son and I relaize that we had left the bucket somewhere.

I was one of the last to leave also. I went down and swept the concrete on the pistol range just before I did. I didn't see an orange bucket down there.

 

[Bob J]

Hey Bob, have you tried the mold I made you?

I did and I have to say it was awesome! Makes perfect ingots that fit perfectly in the pot and stack very well! Thanks again for making it for me!

 

[Bob J]

Thanks guys for all the kind words..... Was great to see everyone and for Mark and I it was a pleasure to help out.....

 

[JackO]

Bob,
Thanks again for all the hard work you and others put into this workshop. It is just unbelievable how much knowledge you guys accumulated and then shared with us in just one day. I feel Like I was casting lead bullets for at least several years. And I have left with 70 perfect 500S&W Mag casted, sized, lubed and gaschecked ready to be loaded bullets!
Bob, I'm sorry about the accident you had and hope your eye is OK.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

Could you post a picture of the mold, and maybe some description of the way you made it, what it is made from, pcs cut this length, and welded, blah blah blah???

Everyone really likes the design of the propane tank smelting pot, and I am sure that if we added the ingot mold to the sticky section thread, we'd have people making those as well!

I, for one. have some welding equipment, and would love to make one up. So, details, please.

Hey Bob, have you tried the mold I made you?

 

[sffar]

I'd also like to thank you guys for putting together such a well planned event. It was great meeting everyone, and having a chance to yak to no end about casting and reloading. Hope we all have a chance to do it again next year.
Sam

 

[Bob J]

Bob,
Thanks again for all the hard work you and others put into this workshop. It is just unbelievable how much knowledge you guys accumulated and then shared with us in just one day. I feel Like I was casting lead bullets for at least several years. And I have left with 70 perfect 500S&W Mag casted, sized, lubed and gaschecked ready to be loaded bullets!
Bob, I'm sorry about the accident you had and hope your eye is OK.

Was certainly our pleasure..... Really enjoyed helping out where we could.... The eye is fine though will be bloody for a few weeks.... Was really lucky and really solidifies the need to wear safety glasses even in those situations which have remote chances of getting hurt.... One more inch over and I would probably have lost the eye.... Pretty scary stuff.....

Was glad that you were able to get all set with those..... It's a great bullet that I think will be great in my Beowulf.... Just about everything else out there in the cast world for that caliber is a SWC so having a ball round will come in handy when fed in gas gun.... Be sure and let us know how they shoot.....

 

[DukeInFlorida]

A few of my reflections on the day:

• Thank you to all who HELPED in every way. I wont try to name all the names, because I would somehow leave one or two out. But, between the tent, and the generator, coffee, donuts, moving tables, cleaning up, etc.... thank you to all who made the event a success. It's what a WORKSHOP should be, people helping others learn to do what they know how to do.
• A very SPECIAL thanks to Bob and Mark. They humped MOST of the equipment to the workshop, and provided the propane for the day of smelting. There is no question in my mind that the true success of the day was due to their efforts! Thank you, Bob and Mark!
• E/C, thank you and your club for the use of the grounds. Please make it a point to extend our gratitude, especially for the guys who prepared that meal. It was certainly worth waiting for!
• And, especially thank you to the participants, some of whom drove some distance to participate. Without the participants, it's just a NES gathering. Not that every NES gathering isn't a magic moment (because they are!) But this workshop is all about the new casters. So, thank you for all the great questions. Thank you for bringing the raw materials, so that you could practice the various aspects of the new hobby. Thank you for pitching in to help, etc. I'm especially pleased that we have a few young people in the workshop. The skills that they learned will last a lifetime. I sure wish someone had showed me the finer details of casting when I was in my teens or twenties!
• Thank you to the individuals and companies who supplied the raffle items. Not only did they support our workshop in very meaningful ways. They also hope that you will patronize their various skills. Randy Lee was very generous with beeswax, etc, and I hope that if you feel inclined to make your own lube, that you would keep Randy in mind. You have his contact info. Likewise, I'm packing up a favorite kitchen knife, and will send that off to Michael J Spangler for refitting with a new handle. I chatted with Capt Walt thi morning, and he has open dates for fishing trips listed on his site. His rate is $400 for a half day for up to four people. So, with your $100 discount coupon, that's a pretty good deal ($300 divided by 4). So, thanks for the raffle sponsors.
• Thank the LORD for providing us with a perfect weather day. It was much better than just spending the last day on earth (oops, that didn't happen... sorry) in the rain.
• There were lots of promises made by many for follow up information of many types. Please make it a point to follow up on those promises. And, if it makes sense, please post useful details either here, in this thread, or elsewhere in our Reloading area. I'll take the best follow up info, and pull those into the Mega sticky thread. The hope is that we will build one of the best reference resources for casting on the web. Well, at least one of the best. So, share and follow up.
• If there are any lingering question, please don't feel shy about asking and addressing your questions. I heard from one member who attended last years workshop that there was so much info crammed into one day, it was almost confusing. If we are to call this workshop successful, we need to be available to answer the questions that you have, so that you can embark in casting right off the bat.
• I would urge you all to continue to look for lead alloys, and begin your own smelting and casting hobby. Be ever on the lookout for materials. Remember, we do this because it makes our reloading less expensive. It doesn't make anys sense to BUY ingots for $10 a pound, when you can get wheel weights (for example) with a bit of checking around. If you need any help with suggestions, mechanical skills, sawzall cutting of propane tanks... whatever.... just ask, and we'll try our best to help get you going.
• SAFETY FIRST! Please remember the lessons of the day with regard to safety when processing lead into bullets. There are lots of ways to get hurt. Be safe. Wear protective clothing, and be as cautious as you now know you need to be.
• Have fun, and please share the results of your casting experiences. Those of us who are casters (all who attended are now formally and officially casters!) love to learn new techniques and skills. We love to hear about new molds. See new ways to make gas checks. Share what we have learned with regards to casting for a specific caliber or gun. That sort of thing. So, when you make your first batch o new bullets, POST THE PICTURES!! We'd love to see them.
• There were a lot of pictures taken yesterday, and I'd hope that as time allows, that the images will make their way to our forum so that all can enjoy revisiting the events of the day.

I look forward to next year's workshop!

 

[Exousia]

Photos

Here are some of the photos that I took:

Casting:

Slugging:

Smashing bullets:

Freshly cast:

Smelting:

Fluxing:

 

[Exousia]

Some of us had a really good time:

Some of us came to work:

 

[Fixxah]

Duke,

The mold is made out of angle iron. I believe Bob wanted them 8" long and there are five welded side X side. The ends are scraps and they are welded at an angle so the ingot "falls" free after cooling. I hadn't welded for some time so the grinding ops were time consuming to say the least. My guess is that they drop around 2lbs.

I have been having trouble with pics so maybe ask Bob for one. He described what he wanted me to make. Maybe there was a castboolit thread with the original. There are two others that are 10" long that need grinding and I am in no hurry at this point. I would however, like to try one the next time I get set up for smelting.

 

[Slowdive]

Before the workshop last Saturday I didn't know dross from flux...ain't learnin' great. Took me all of about 60 minutes shopping at my local HW store to get the equipment. They had a 105,000 BTU burner, that baby works.

So I have some range lead smelted from the indoor pistol range. About half of my raw stock was what I have self termed "plate cake"...the lead that liquefies when it hits the steel range stop. Very clean, virtually no dross or jackets, the rest was regular range stuff w/ jackets, sand and other junk in the mix. There are 106 "biscuits" @ ~ 2 lbs per....approx 215 lb yield. I feel its a decent start. Maybe 2 1/2 hours work over 2 nights...4 pots full. Now to find something to harden them with. Pretty good for my entree into lead casting IMO. I have to say the smelting session was the most intimidating, but turning crap into useful stuff is very satisfying.

ETA: I just looked on Midway, if I had bought this from them 215 lbs of lead would have cost me $860 w/o shipping (they charge $4/lb)! I dropped less than $100 on the pot and furnace. If I made my own propane pot, I would've been in for less than $60. Either way this is a VERY good ROI.

 

[Boris]

Before the class last Saturday I couldn't tell dross from flux...ain't learnin' great. Took me all of about 60 minutes of shopping at my local HW store to get the equipment. They had a 105,000 BTU burner, that baby works.

So I have some range lead smelted from the indoor pistol range. About half of my raw stock was what I have self coined "plate cake"...the lead that liquefies when it hits the range plate. Very clean, virtually no dross or jackets, the rest was regular range stuff w/ jackets, sand and other junk in the mix. There are 106 "biscuits" @ ~ 2 lbs per....approx 215 lb yield. I feel its a decent start. Maybe 2 1/2 hours work over 2 nights...4 pots full. Now to find something to harden them with. Pretty good for my entree into lead casting IMO. I have to say the smelting session was the most intimidating, but turning crap into useful stuff is very satisfying.

OUTSTANDING !!!

that's 16'182.8 Makarov bullets.

 

[Patriot]

If your range is a mix of larger bullets and .22, and you are intending to cast
low velocity bullets there is no need to harden. Alternatively, if it is mostly .22
then you might need some hardening alloy. You should try to see just how
hard the lead is. My experience with range scrap (mostly larger caliber bullets)
is that it is the equivalent of the WW I get.

The MIT range clean out = Original test 6/25/2010 - 8.0 BHN. 4/25/2011 test = 11.5 BHN,
plenty hard enough for anything under 1K FPS. That lead was consistent with two other
range scrap samples I followed:

Range lead - Original test 7/20/2010 - 8.5 BHN. 4/25/2011 = 12.5 BHN.
Range lead - Original test 5/20/2010 - 9.5 BHN. 4/25/2011 = 11.5 BHN.

Range scrap is unpredictable for the most part but in general it's pretty
good lead for shooting. You can try water dropping and check the hardness
after a couple of days. You might be very surprised just how hard your
bullets get.

Before the workshop last Saturday I didn't know dross from flux...ain't learnin' great. Took me all of about 60 minutes shopping at my local HW store to get the equipment. They had a 105,000 BTU burner, that baby works.

So I have some range lead smelted from the indoor pistol range. About half of my raw stock was what I have self termed "plate cake"...the lead that liquefies when it hits the steel range stop. Very clean, virtually no dross or jackets, the rest was regular range stuff w/ jackets, sand and other junk in the mix. There are 106 "biscuits" @ ~ 2 lbs per....approx 215 lb yield. I feel its a decent start. Maybe 2 1/2 hours work over 2 nights...4 pots full. Now to find something to harden them with. Pretty good for my entree into lead casting IMO. I have to say the smelting session was the most intimidating, but turning crap into useful stuff is very satisfying.

ETA: I just looked on Midway, if I had bought this from them 215 lbs of lead would have cost me $860 w/o shipping (they charge $4/lb)! I dropped less than $100 on the pot and furnace. If I made my own propane pot, I would've been in for less than $60. Either way this is a VERY good ROI.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

I'm with Patriot on this one. You might find out that you're already all set.

Then again, it never hurts to have some wheel weights on hand. Get busy, and start hitting the tire shops!

Congrats on your first solo smelts!

The smelting isn't the most intimidating for me. It's all the rest of the artsey parts of the bullet making.... Lube, sizing, alloy mixing, etc...........

The smelting is just simple, melt, flux, skim.............

Is this the burner that you got???

Looks neat. Wonder what would happen if you took the flame deflector out of the way.

Which HW store did you get that at?

 

[Slowdive]

My indoor range is both large service calibers and .22 lr. I've decided to get started with 3 calibers.

.357 Magnum - I have 2 snubbies, a 4" revolver and a Marlin 1894 lever gun. The snubs are easily going to be under 1k, but I have crono'd my lever gun @ 1250 fps w/ 158gn lead plinking loads.

.45 ACP - This should be no problem keeping under 1k fps.

45/70 Govt. - My most successful cast load to date is a 405 gn FP at 1370 fps (over 34 gns of RL7). This is probably pretty fast for unhardened lead.​

My thinking was that I needed to get these to Lyman #2 hardness (BHN = 15), Ill have to make some small batches and test. How much hardness can I get just by water dropping?

That indeed is my burner, its the King Kooker Outdoor Jet Cooker.

http://kingkooker.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=19

That flame deflector is on a pivot, so it simply turns out of the way. Strangely the regulator is only 10 PSI, but this thing puts out some serious heat. I opened it up for the initial melt, but went to 1/2 throttle for the fluxing and pouring operation. I managed to use only one 20# propane tank for all 4 melting sessions. I got it at Harvey's Ace Hardware in Needham, MA.

 

[EddieCoyle]

My water dropped 50/50 will get to BHN 15 after a week or so.

 

[Slowdive]

My first solo 45/70 casts came out pretty well:

Went to the range and I was very pleased. These are softer than my commercial casts, but the accuracy was excellent. Some minor leading, but it came out with 2 passes of a bronze wool wrapped brush. This is fun

ETA Target Pics:

These are @ 100 yards. I'm not going to win any prizes, but this is the best cast bullet 45/70 result I've ever had. The circle is 5" in diameter. Using commercial casts, I would consider 60% or 70% in or touching the circle a pretty good day. I'm 19/20 (95%) with this load.

Note: The two holes below @ 9 o'clock touching the orange are .357 Magnum from a Marlin lever...also cast

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Those are sweet looking! Nice work! I'm still waiting on the order for 45/70 brass to come in so I haven't forgot about you. I think last notification it was backordered until June 10th or so.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

BAD A$$

 

[Bob J]

Nice job and a sweet load!