1934 Banner Mauser - SA (Pre-SS) marked

[majspud]

Having been unable to find a Gew98, I kept looking for another K98 variant. Unexpectedly I sold my Vetterli to 'Goose' this AM which brought this rare one within my price range. Funny, I had originally put a Standard Modell in my signature, but gave up and went for a Gew98 when I couldn't find one. Then fate reversed itself, and I actually wound up with a Standard Modell.

While the sanded stock, mismatched bolt (albeit the correct early style pre-war commercial), and bayonet lug detract from the true collectible value, this is a very interesting piece. This is a Standard Modell, or in this case a Banner Mauser. Dated 1934, what makes this piece interesting is the Ch.d.A. stamp on the buttstock. C.h.d.A. (Chef des Ausbildungswesens) is the administrative concern for the SA, yes, that SA (Sturmabteilung) - the Brown Shirts - the paramilitary group that guarded Hitler and was the forerunner of the SS. Known C.h.d.A. 1934 Banner Mauser serial numbers run from 70807-87688, or only a little less than 17,000 pieces acquired as 'training rifles' early in the Nazi regime. Given this pedigree, I can accept a matched but sanded stock and a mismatched, but correct bolt.

Further, this rifle was modified later into a K98 by turning down the bolt with the associated cut-out, stock cut for a sling, and the addition of a take down disc (commercial models had straight bolts, no disc, and a traditional ventral sling and swivels). This is an acceptable replacement for my early S/42G I sold in the acquisition of the disaster BSW.

These are the seller's pics. They are jut as good as I could do, but we have snow outside at the moment. I have a sling waiting for it, and a cleaning rod and muzzle cover on the way. Rarely do I seem to find a rifle with all the 'bits and pieces'.

T

 

[majspud]

Great shooting rifle. Great bore. 100 yards, German qualification targets, 44 degrees and gale force winds. 30 rounds '54 Yugo surplus. First shot left target in black, second low, dozen or so straight into the black, then a few high. Moved to the right target. First shot right, then high as the target blew off the bottom rope. Reset and put the rest in the black. Best shooting Mauser I've had yet. The quality of the pre war (1934) pieces is outstanding.


Posting from phone; pics upside down as usual. I wonder as I am a lefty and use the iPhone bottom facing left causes it? Will fix tonight.

T

 

[noddaduma]

Very nice. Where did you acquire your German qualifying targets?

 

[majspud]

Very nice. Where did you acquire your German qualifying targets?

From the K98k forum a year or two back.

T

 

[mac1911]

From the K98k forum a year or two back.

T

Is there any indication on how to use those targets.
Do you know the purpose of the out lined square.?
Do they have a specific aim point and impact area?

 

[majspud]

You had to put 5 consecutive shots in the black at 100 yards. With this rifle I aimed at the bottom of the black and hit in the middle/upper black, as the K98k battle sight is 150M.

Upside right pics. I can email the .pdf of the target to anyone who wants it; the file is too big to post as an attachment here.

t

 

[mac1911]

You had to put 5 consecutive shots in the black at 100 yards. With this rifle I aimed at the bottom of the black and hit in the middle/upper black, as the K98k battle sight is 150M.

Upside right pics. I can email the .pdf of the target to anyone who wants it; the file is too big to post as an attachment here.

t

wow that's pretty generous I thought the germans would demand more from their rifles and soldiers ?

what are the demesions of the outlined rectangle on the bottom.

 

[majspud]

I have 73x128mm. I'm not sure if it is exactly to scale or not; should be close.

t

 

[majspud]

Here is the original from Law's "Backbone of the Wehrmacht"...

...and here is the link on the K98k forum.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?10929-Mauser-test-target&highlight=rifle+targets

t

 

[majspud]

Editing my first post, this is a "Banner K", not a standard model. This is a commercial based Banner Mauser built to the /K military specifications in the first place, and not modified. Purpose built military pieces in 1934 were marked either S/42K (Mauser), or S/147K (Sauer).

T

 

[mac1911]

Here is the original from Law's "Backbone of the Wehrmacht"...

...and here is the link on the K98k forum.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?10929-Mauser-test-target&highlight=rifle+targets

t

That link makes more sense.
I could not imagine that "in the black" was acceptable.
So assuming you aim at the bottom of the large black your rifle would pass targeting and accuracy test if 3 rounds are inside the rectangle and 5 shots are inside a 12cm/4.72" circle/group.
Or basically the common military standard of around 4-6 moa.
I didn't see any thing that mentions what sight setting is used but I assume the lowest.
Not knowing what setting they actually zeroed on I would say if they had a 150m battle zero
My 1944 k98 has a 50m mark or one notch below 100m ? Anyway with a 150m zero based on 100m setting your group center
would be about 1.5" high at 100 yards.
I honestly forget how mine shoots as I have been shooting 200 grain cast at 1600 fps which I need 600 m sitting to hit the black at 200 yards

I do find the the steel and brass targets interesting.
The steel target is set in such a way to allow more impacts higher in the targeting are. I can only assume the steel case velocity is different.

I also assume during the proof testing a mechanical rest was used.

I,would like to see what the German infantry used to qualify for their equivalent to the U.S. marksmanship qualifications for the time period.