MA Gun Grab 2024: Senate bill S.2572

Woodsloafer said:
Yep, I think in 10-20 years the country is going to have a dramatically different look, and not in a good way, we've been sliding down the slope for a while but are now hitting the steep part. The Constitution will be ignored more and more and, subsequently, will matter less and less.
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It looks that way, but they are eating themselves from within. Sadly, it may take a dramatic economic collapse to save our freedom.


Which in inevitable:
Debt per taxpayer - $267K
Debt per citizen - $103K

....because this is not sustainable!
 
pastera said:
I think they are waiting for cases like Rahimi to come out in order to use anything they can to avoid Bruen's growing case law.
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For the committee is the rule that the final result has to be some form of merge between the house and senate bills, no new text allowed?
 
pastera said:
I think they are waiting for cases like Rahimi to come out in order to use anything they can to avoid Bruen's growing case law.
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Yep. I truly believe they will wait as long as they can to see what's happening with other laws and/or court cases across the country to see what will stick or what they can add in. I will be surprised if we see the final bill before near to the end of this legislative session. In the meantime they will be "finessing" the wording, etc. of what they already have. In their view, they have a "great opportunity" to essentially fruck us over, and particularly future gun owners, right now, and I expect they will take full advantage of it. They want to shut down gun sales in MA and discourage/eliminate future gun owners.
 
Woodsloafer said:
Yep. I truly believe they will wait as long as they can to see what's happening with other laws and/or court cases across the country to see what will stick or what they can add in. I will be surprised if we see the final bill before near to the end of this legislative session. In the meantime they will be "finessing" the wording, etc. of what they already have. In their view, they have a "great opportunity" to essentially fruck us over, and particularly future gun owners, right now, and I expect they will take full advantage of it. They want to shut down gun sales in MA and discourage/eliminate future gun owners.
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Guarantee they were counting on Garland vs VanDerStok not being granted cert. Ooops
 
pastera said:
There may be some rule ls but they won't be held to them.
Even it they made foundational changes it would easily pass both houses.
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I'm not sure.

Mariano kicked this back once already, so there are definitely some lines in the sand he doesn't want crossed. Or didn't, several months ago. I'm not sure anything has happened in the interim that has changed the calculus, in his mind.
 
Woodsloafer said:
Yep. I truly believe they will wait as long as they can to see what's happening with other laws and/or court cases across the country to see what will stick or what they can add in. I will be surprised if we see the final bill before near to the end of this legislative session. In the meantime they will be "finessing" the wording, etc. of what they already have. In their view, they have a "great opportunity" to essentially fruck us over, and particularly future gun owners, right now, and I expect they will take full advantage of it. They want to shut down gun sales in MA and discourage/eliminate future gun owners.
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I want to see what they come up with ASAP.

They are wise to wait as long as possible.

If they jump the shark they’ll shoot themselves in the foot.

Could be a couple more months.

I hope not though for our sake.
 
Reptile said:
I want to see what they come up with ASAP.

They are wise to wait as long as possible.

If they jump the shark they’ll shoot themselves in the foot.

Could be a couple more months.

I hope not though for our sake.
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I think they’re going to do a good job of making this thing stick. There have been challenges in other states that have been shot down. Those were good examples for the national and international gun grabbers who are directing the MA tyrants as to how to proceed with this. I think it’s going to be a massive overhaul. But I don’t think there will be a confiscation. Yet. There will be, but not yet.
 
LakeTrout said:
I think they’re going to do a good job of making this thing stick.
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Possibly, but I'm not holding my breath. There is relatively little that they can add to the status quo without appropriating money to pay for it, and unlike the US government, they can't just print more. I strongly suspect that whatever gets passed is likely to be mostly window-dressing, with no added funding over the status quo and with zero chance of meaningful enforcement. A court challenge might take a couple years, yes, but I think it's unlikely anyone will get seriously jammed up in the interim, versus what can already happen to them under the status quo.

LakeTrout said:
There have been challenges in other states that have been shot down. Those were good examples for the national and international gun grabbers who are directing the MA tyrants as to how to proceed with this. I think it’s going to be a massive overhaul.
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Bruen leaves a lot of room for other states to pass such an "overhaul," but the existing procedures in Massachusetts are already pushing Bruen's parameters. I'm not sure an "overhaul" that'll stick, long term, is all that easy for MA politicians to pass. So what other, less restrictive jurisdictions can add to their current arsenal of infringement is already the law of the land here.

LakeTrout said:
But I don’t think there will be a confiscation. Yet. There will be, but not yet.
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There will certainly not be. There is zero constitutional ground for that to be passed and implemented. I almost wish they would try, though; it would make the whole house of cards fall much, much faster.
 
Bmcl322 said:
It looks that way, but they are eating themselves from within. Sadly, it may take a dramatic economic collapse to save our freedom.


Which in inevitable:
Debt per taxpayer - $267K
Debt per citizen - $103K

....because this is not sustainable!
Click to expand...
In my opinion the US is going to have its own version of the 1991 Soviet collapse before 2030. Economic collapse in US + breakup of NATO and the broader US global order. Although it’s not certain to be peaceful. We are obviously teetering on the edge of ww3 on multiple fronts.

The way these things work is “gradually, then suddenly”. You can’t predict black swans, but you can identify that a system is growing increasingly fragile, and rapidly. Fragility does not mean a system it is weak, it means that the system cannot withstand exogenous shocks.

In light of this, I’m not sure that litigating any laws in courts for multiple years is even relevant.
 
Picton said:
I'm not sure.

Mariano kicked this back once already, so there are definitely some lines in the sand he doesn't want crossed. Or didn't, several months ago. I'm not sure anything has happened in the interim that has changed the calculus, in his mind.
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I don't think they will make foundational changes since the bill is already an anti's wet dream.
However they will likely make changes to the wording of the bill to try to avoid any SCOTUS dicta or take advantage of any bad outcome that may come from Rahimi.
 
Picton said:
Possibly, but I'm not holding my breath. There is relatively little that they can add to the status quo without appropriating money to pay for it, and unlike the US government, they can't just print more. I strongly suspect that whatever gets passed is likely to be mostly window-dressing, with no added funding over the status quo and with zero chance of meaningful enforcement. A court challenge might take a couple years, yes, but I think it's unlikely anyone will get seriously jammed up in the interim, versus what can already happen to them under the status quo.



Bruen leaves a lot of room for other states to pass such an "overhaul," but the existing procedures in Massachusetts are already pushing Bruen's parameters. I'm not sure an "overhaul" that'll stick, long term, is all that easy for MA politicians to pass. So what other, less restrictive jurisdictions can add to their current arsenal of infringement is already the law of the land here.



There will certainly not be. There is zero constitutional ground for that to be passed and implemented. I almost wish they would try, though; it would make the whole house of cards fall much, much faster.
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The only thing to watch out for is if it is set up to be self funded through fines, reselling of confenscated firearms ( and I don't suggest that there will be door to door confenscations, however if someone is found with a forbidden firearm) and new taxes and fees.
 
JDL said:
The only thing to watch out for is if it is set up to be self funded through fines, reselling of confenscated firearms ( and I don't suggest that there will be door to door confenscations, however if someone is found with a forbidden firearm) and new taxes and fees.
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I'd love to see the state attempt that. LOVE it.

Confiscation and resale would never yield anywhere near enough profit to fund any kind of government action, and instead would find its way into the courts as a matter of urgency. The state would never try that. Hell, just think of the optics: the state grabs these Evil Weapons Of Death and then fobs them off to other states? That'd look terrible in the press.

Fines and fees are already in the status quo. They would never yield enough new revenue to add anything substantive to what the state already does to us.
 
P51MA said:
In my opinion the US is going to have its own version of the 1991 Soviet collapse before 2030. Economic collapse in US + breakup of NATO and the broader US global order. Although it’s not certain to be peaceful. We are obviously teetering on the edge of ww3 on multiple fronts.

The way these things work is “gradually, then suddenly”. You can’t predict black swans, but you can identify that a system is growing increasingly fragile, and rapidly. Fragility does not mean a system it is weak, it means that the system cannot withstand exogenous shocks.

In light of this, I’m not sure that litigating any laws in courts for multiple years is even relevant.
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This is where I’m at, it all seems so pointless

Unless the point is to disarm as many of us as possible before that happens, at least those of us “behind enemy lines”
 
JDL said:
The only thing to watch out for is if it is set up to be self funded through fines, reselling of confenscated firearms ( and I don't suggest that there will be door to door confenscations, however if someone is found with a forbidden firearm) and new taxes and fees.
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I would be absolutely shocked by reselling of confiscated firearms. The people who support this legislation want guns to be destroyed, so that they can "make the streets safer." There have even been proposals to the prevent police from trading in service guns to prevent those guns from eventually getting back to the market. Though I believe the cost eventually killed those ideas.

There is no way they will try to raise revenue by "putting guns back on the streets." But if they ever did, we could certainly get mileage out of their hypocrisy. Not that that is ever in short supply.
 
straightshooterjake said:
I would be absolutely shocked by reselling of confiscated firearms. The people who support this legislation want guns to be destroyed, so that they can "make the streets safer." There have even been proposals to the prevent police from trading in service guns to prevent those guns from eventually getting back to the market. Though I believe the cost eventually killed those ideas.

There is no way they will try to raise revenue by "putting guns back on the streets." But if they ever did, we could certainly get mileage out of their hypocrisy. Not that that is ever in short supply.
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There was a report recently where confiscated guns had everything stripped to the serialized parts and sold by them for their own department use. Thus the 'gun' was destroyed. Don't trust them.
 
No problem these are the law abiding black gun owners they are just as bad as the rest of us. They don't care about these white supprmasist black people they obviously do not represent the black criminal who are the only gun owners that seem to be OK as far as the Massachusetts Justice system. Get arrested for a crime using a gun you just get put back out on the street so you can just obtain another gun. If you are not a black criminal you go to jail just like us law abiding whites.
 
JDL said:
No problem these are the law abiding black gun owners they are just as bad as the rest of us. They don't care about these white supprmasist black people they obviously do not represent the black criminal who are the only gun owners that seem to be OK as far as the Massachusetts Justice system. Get arrested for a crime using a gun you just get put back out on the street so you can just obtain another gun. If you are not a black criminal you go to jail just like us law abiding whites.
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The gun charges always seem to be dropped if you have a bag of crack also.
 

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