wrinkled 223 cases

[headednorth]

Update- see post #11


I loaded up some 223 today, tumbled and while checking them noticed that about a dozen have an odd wrinkle in the case just below the shoulder. Some just a slight wrinkle, a few pretty severe.

Some background- I had processed these partially prior to today. Cleaned, de-primed, re-sized, and checked for length with a gauge. Had a batch of 100 or so that didnt need to be trimmed so these were the ones I charged and seated bullets in. I didnt notice any defects in the cases I did today and I looked in the tub I had been sorting for length and found none with a similar defect, so Im 99% certain it happened during the seating operation. Cant see how it would of happened during charging or tumbling and those were the only other operations I did today. All bullets were seated within a few thousands of 2.200.

My only theories at this point are...

-the bullet went in a bit cock-eyed and it crumpled the case as it was seated. But the necks are all in good shape, the damage is below/at the shoulder. I would think that the necks would of borne the brunt of the damage if this was the case.

-I used 25.5 grains of Varget which brings the powder pretty much up to the neck, not leaving a whole lot of room for the bullet. I was thinking the little bit of air between the top of the powder and the base of the bullet is being compressed as the bullet is being seated causing the case to be damaged. (not likely, imo, but who knows.) I'd think the case would be bulged out rather than crumpled.

I loaded maybe 10 dummy rounds using the cases from the tub I got the others from and wasnt able to duplicate the the wrinkles in the case. This was a bullet loaded into a case- no primer or powder so if the compressed air theory is any good, the air would of escaped out of the flash hole. Same batch of cases and same batch of bullets.

Im aware of dents being put into the shoulder due to too much lube during the re-sizing operation. These were all re-sized earlier and I didnt see any damage then or in the ones in the same batch that I looked through today. Also every once in a while, I notice theres a little ridge formed into the shoulder. Almost like theres a flare where the shoulder meets the body of the case. What I saw today is a first for me though. Much worse than the slight flare Ive seen before. Ive attached a pic below. Anyone ever see this or have any idea whats causing it?

eta- sorry for the crappy ipod touch pics...

 

[EddieCoyle]

Are you using RCBS X-dies by any chance?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Also, are you sure it's .223 brass?

The wrinkled ones I mean.

 

[EddieCoyle]

One more question. Above you indicated that you decapped and resized. Did you do this in one operation or did you decap first and resize afterwards?

 

[headednorth]

-I dont believe theyre x-dies. Here's a link. Searched for the part number...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/440502/rcbs-2-die-set-223-remington

-Funny, now that I look, the ones I picked out all have a headstamp of WCC either 11 or 13. The rest of the batch is mixed. ( the non-damaged ones)

eta- did a little digging and found wcc with a cross inside a circle is Winchester brass made to NATO specs, so its 556 and not 223, correct?

-I believe I de-capped and re-sized all at once. Ive been loading mostly pistol rounds lately, so its been a while since I did these. I do have a universal de-capper I use from time to time when I dont have a lot of free time to reload, but I want to get something done. Cant say Im 100% sure, but I think I did these with the combo resize/decap.

 

[mac1911]

In that picture it looks like your shoulders got severly squished along with the wrinkle.

 

[EddieCoyle]

A couple of possibilities:

WCC ammo usually features a pretty pronounced bullet crimp. If you don't remove it by trimming, it can be very difficult to seat the new bullets without crushing the cases.

Or

If you decapped with a universal decapping die, then ran them through a sizing die with the decapping mandrel removed, the necks will not have been expanded sufficiently to accept the bullets without damage to the cases.

 

[headednorth]

A couple of possibilities:

WCC ammo usually features a pretty pronounced bullet crimp. If you don't remove it by trimming, it can be very difficult to seat the new bullets without crushing the cases.

This would make sense. These all have a crimp on them that I can see pretty easily and the batch I did today were ones that did not need to be trimmed.

Or

If you decapped with a universal decapping die, then ran them through a sizing die with the decapping mandrel removed, the necks will not have been expanded sufficiently to accept the bullets without damage to the cases.

Not likely. I may have decapped and then ran through the resizing die with the decapping pin/mandrel still in place, but I know I didnt remove it.

Ill have to keep an eye out for WCC brass going forward i guess.

When you asked earlier if I was sure it was 223, were you thinking it may have been 556, or some other caliber? I always assumed 556 brass was gtg in 223 dies.

 

[mac1911]

Could you have missed these in the trim process? Possible the case/neck is/was unusually long and started to crimp before the bullet was seated?

 

[headednorth]

Its possible. I have a gauge and was quickly dropping a case in and feeling/eyeballing to see if the neck was flush with the gauge. Totally possible for a handful to of been just long enough to cause a problem.

 

[headednorth]

Well, I have to say Im a bit embarrassed, but Ive figured out what went wrong.

As I said, I was sorting through a pile of cases, sorting > 1.750 from < 1.750. Tossing each into separate bins, to be trimmed or not. This was a while ago and Ive been reloading pistol rounds lately and had gotten back to the 223. I basically grabbed the wrong bin and loaded the ones that had yet to be trimmed. Stupid. The ones that came out wrinkled Im assuming were the longest of the >1.750's. As I gauged the other finished rounds, a handful are ok, but most are slightly above where they should be.

In the future I have to either leave more detailed notes for myself, or work smaller batches so I can finish rather than leaving some half done and picking up where I left off at a later date.

Sorry to of wasted peoples time and thanks for the replies.

 

[mac1911]

Well, I have to say Im a bit embarrassed, but Ive figured out what went wrong.

As I said, I was sorting through a pile of cases, sorting > 1.750 from < 1.750. Tossing each into separate bins, to be trimmed or not. This was a while ago and Ive been reloading pistol rounds lately and had gotten back to the 223. I basically grabbed the wrong bin and loaded the ones that had yet to be trimmed. Stupid. The ones that came out wrinkled Im assuming were the longest of the >1.750's. As I gauged the other finished rounds, a handful are ok, but most are slightly above where they should be.

In the future I have to either leave more detailed notes for myself, or work smaller batches so I can finish rather than leaving some half done and picking up where I left off at a later date.

Sorry to of wasted peoples time and thanks for the replies.

My best method for Brass ready to load, sized trimmed is plastic bags inside a 5 gallon bucket.
All others un processed brass is in boxes or loose in a bucket.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Most times you see something that looks like that, it's crimping issues. That can be caused by many things, but usually, it's overcrimped and usually that's caused by your crimp being set for a shorter length. So if you initially set your crimp die up for 1.740" long brass and then ran a 1.755" cartridge through, you'd get what you see. Many reloaders don't even set-up for crimping .223. But when you run a case that's too long, you get the result of your pictures. The thing that bothers me is that you should've felt the sproing when this happened.

 

[jwalts27]

Those must have been some really long cases. I have loaded a few long cases before on accident and that never happened.