USA Today: 2023 ATF tracking 1,300 gun stores who sold guns to criminals (Two in MA)

[Rockrivr1]

It would seem that The Gun Parlor and Four Season's made the list! To be on the list you had to have over 25 guns traced back from criminal activity. There's an interactive map in the article showing where these gun stores are. Hover over a dot and it gives the names of the gun store.

The federal government has stepped up its scrutiny of gun stores that sell guns used in crimes, with the number of stores singled out more than doubling in the past four years.

Which gun stores sell the most crime guns has been kept secret for more than two decades, since 2003 under the George W. Bush administration. But a Freedom of Information Act request from USA TODAY unearthed a glimpse of them.

The release of store names is “inappropriate and counterproductive,” according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation’s Senior Vice President Larry Keane. He questioned whether ATF broke the law by doing so.

“If shops are named publicly and there are negative articles suggesting they're bad guys,” Keane said, “they won't want to cooperate with the ATF as they've done in the past.”

Gun shops that sell the most guns used in crime revealed in new list

An obscure regulatory program at ATF reveals which gun shops sell the most firearms used in crime.

www.usatoday.com

 

[not new guy]

Why the F would the ATF release this to the public? Are they alleging that these shops committed crimes themselves?

 

[Junior314]

Why the F would the ATF release this to the public? Are they alleging that these shops committed crimes themselves?

Get the Karens riled up.

 

[Goliathan]

Next up, a public list and article about all the dealerships that sold cars to people who later drove drunk.

Editorial chicanery at its clearest. Selling guns to people who then become criminals is not the same thing as illegally selling guns to criminals.

 

[VTski4x4]

I wonder what crimes make the list. Legal LTC holder pinched for a dui with a gun? Red Flagged? The manipulation of statistics knows no bounds.

 

[ddeck]

The definition that they use for "crime gun" is pretty much any trace that they do, so there is no guarantee it was ever actually used in a crime. This is an older article, but the definition is still roughly the same (only gotten wider):

The Definition of a Crime Gun - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Let’s be clear about this: the Washington Post and the mainstream media have not been clear about the definition of a “crime gun.” And yet a proper explanation of the term is crucial to any discussion about the relevance of weapons traces run by the Bureau of...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Next up, a public list and article about all the dealerships that sold cars to people who later drove drunk.

Editorial chicanery at its clearest. Selling guns to people who then become criminals is not the same thing as illegally selling guns to criminals.

It's even worse. They are talking about trafficking and straw purchases. So it's like an article about a dealership who sold a car that was later stolen and then used in a drunk driving accident.

 

[walter62]

Have they ID'd the microstamped ammo? Has that led to arrest or conviction?

 

[Asaltweapon]

Gee.

I hope the pant shitters saved their paperwork.

 

[nin7474]

Shocking!! Not terrorism but gang sh*t. Unreal that the police won't say GANG VIOLENCE yet but Gun violence.
And 2 of the 3 caught were JUVENILES! And they had guns(illegally obtained or stolen i bet).
Isn't there laws already for that? DUUUUUUURP STFU Joe

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

The gun shop I work for is on the list.

 

[chris_1001]

Thankfully no mill shops!

And lol at four seasons for all their rules and fud

 

[MGnoob]

If you sell enough guns, even if you don’t sell them to prohibited people or straw purchases. They’re gonna get stolen or the other way they make it onto the illegitimate market. They’re gonna wind up at a crime scene, considering everything‘s is illegal.

It’s just another waste of a government agencies time.. does nothing that’s productive

 

[drgrant]

It would seem that The Gun Parlor and Four Season's made the list! To be on the list you had to have over 25 guns traced back from criminal activity. There's an interactive map in the article showing where these gun stores are. Hover over a dot and it gives the names of the gun store.

Gun shops that sell the most guns used in crime revealed in new list

An obscure regulatory program at ATF reveals which gun shops sell the most firearms used in crime.

www.usatoday.com

A misleading point in the article is that all traces are "guns sold to criminals" per se. A lot of traces can simply be of some poor bastards stolen gun.

 

[Broc]

It would seem that The Gun Parlor and Four Season's made the list! To be on the list you had to have over 25 guns traced back from criminal activity. There's an interactive map in the article showing where these gun stores are. Hover over a dot and it gives the names of the gun store.

Gun shops that sell the most guns used in crime revealed in new list

An obscure regulatory program at ATF reveals which gun shops sell the most firearms used in crime.

www.usatoday.com

On one hand I think this lost is retarded. Of the stores didn't break the law, who cares. Are we listing dealerships that sold cars used on crimes or people that worked at USA Today and committed crimes??

On the other hand, I laughed when I saw the two stores named.

But I am not happy they were associated with this junk.

 

[Broc]

A misleading point in the article is that all traces are "guns sold to criminals" per se. A lot of traces can simply be of some poor bastards stolen gun.

This.

Also, those stores do the mandatory checks and paperwork. They can't control if sometime later the buyer loses his mind and comits a crime.

This is just retarded.

 

[Varmint]

Why the F would the ATF release this to the public? Are they alleging that these shops committed crimes themselves?

 

[Marty McFly]

If they factored in crime in Mexico, the atf would be top of the list

 

[dcmdon]

Four Seasons sells so many freaking guns, it's no surprise. Note that this has nothing to do with the store selling outside the law.

It's just the number of guns that turn up at crime scenes.

If 4 Seasons sells 10,000 guns per year and Scumbag Guns sells 1000 guns per year and both have 25 show up at crime scenes, then Scumbag has a rate that is 10x higher than 4 seasons.

The entire premise is stupid anyway.

Does the RMV list car dealers that sell the most cars used in drunk driving incidents? My guess is that the largest dealers would sell the most cars used by drunk drivers. Probably the largest Mitsubishi dealer. ha. But you get my point.

 

[drgrant]

Four Seasons sells so many freaking guns, it's no surprise. Note that this has nothing to do with the store selling outside the law.

It's just the number of guns that turn up at crime scenes.

If 4 Seasons sells 10,000 guns per year and Scumbag Guns sells 1000 guns per year and both have 25 show up at crime scenes, then Scumbag has a rate that is 10x higher than 4 seasons.

The entire premise is stupid anyway.

Does the RMV list car dealers that sell the most cars used in drunk driving incidents? My guess is that the largest dealers would sell the most cars used by drunk drivers. Probably the largest Mitsubishi dealer. ha. But you get my point.

FS has also been around for a long ass time. In MA easily a huge % of shops fail within 5 yrs, FS has been around a long assed time. That increases the % chance they could have a trace by itself. Some of those guns could have been sold 15+ yrs ago.

 

[Fixxah]

Why the F would the ATF release this to the public? Are they alleging that these shops committed crimes themselves?

Brandon happens.

 

[CATI]

Why the F would the ATF release this to the public? Are they alleging that these shops committed crimes themselves?

They needed to release it
The info was requested and they provided it
The info is the property of the American public so it can be requested

But a Freedom of Information Act request from USA TODAY

(I am not saying this is not propaganda)

 

[Parker Schreiber]

Four Seasons sells so many freaking guns, it's no surprise. Note that this has nothing to do with the store selling outside the law.

Of course criminal masterminds are going to devise a plan which requires heading out to Woburn and park across from a police station to purchase a weapon.

 

[dcmdon]

Of course criminal masterminds are going to devise a plan which requires heading out to Woburn and park across from a police station to purchase a weapon.

Great point. And the store often has cops in it because when they have time to kill, they wander across the street to look at guns.

 

[dcmdon]

FS has also been around for a long ass time. In MA easily a huge % of shops fail within 5 yrs, FS has been around a long assed time. That increases the % chance they could have a trace by itself. Some of those guns could have been sold 15+ yrs ago.

That's a great point. It's not just how many guns they sell in a year.

It's how many guns that they have sold since the beginning of time are in circulation.

 

[71montess]

How about a foia of the peronel who work for the atf and their addresses ?

 

[Agnotology]

Looked at CT.
"Hoffman'S Guns For The Good Guys"
Apparently not.

 

[blindndead]

Defensive gun shooting found guilty perhaps?

 

[sbhaven]

The article and headline is a bit misleading. Note what they bury down in the article:

The criteria for being included on the list is relatively simple: at least 25 guns traced to a crime over a year that were purchased within the past three years. It’s known in the law enforcement lingo as “time to crime.” A short period is an indicator of the illegal trafficking of guns.

All that's really happening is they are listing the stores that sold a gun. There is no discussion or commentary about what happens AFTER that gun is sold. Did the person buying it have it stolen? Did they sell it to someone else? Was it a straw purchase? Etc. They simply trace the gun to the final FFL and blame the shop for so called crime guns knowing that most people are not going to read beyond the first or second paragraph or even read past the headline.
Further down in the article:

ATF traces crime guns to first purchase
The ATF is responsible for “tracing” crime guns – taking the make, model and serial number and sifting through records to find the chain from manufacturer to first retail sale – to help police solve a crime.

ATF representatives are quick to note that being on their “Demand 2” list itself is not an indication of wrongdoing. Shops and pawn dealers in the program represent about 3% of the roughly 80,000 licensees nationwide.

“A number of factors, including geography, sales volume, secondary market transfers by an original lawful purchaser, and the level of sophistication of firearm traffickers, may be involved in a traced crime gun,” ATF spokeswoman Kristina Mastropasqua wrote in an email.

 

[mothybee]

Defensive gun shooting found guilty perhaps?

Or even not, still traced.