Tight .45 Colt Cylinder Throats

The Goose

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I am posting this in the Reloading section because there is overlap into bullet sizing and also because I think there will be the most interest here. I recently acquired an old model Ruger Vaquero Sheriff’s model in .45 Colt. When I got it to the range to try it out I could not get my reloads to fully chamber and it bound up the cylinder. I managed to get a few to chamber and shoot and could only get about a 6” – 7” group at 25 feet. I was shooting a Big Lube flat point bullet sized to .454 and about 255 grains over 32 grains of 3F blackpowder. This is the same bullet and sizing that I have used in 3 other Vaqueros, 2 Uberti lever guns and an R&D conversion cylinder, all with very good results. My first thought was that I needed to size to .452. Then I decided to do a little research and I found out that it is fairly common for the Vaqueros to have tight cylinder throats and even different size throats on the same cylinder. Based on that I slugged the bore and it was .452 and the cylinder throats were .450 (or less). So here I am trying to chamber a .454 bullet and having it squeeze through .450 and then out a .452 barrel. Luckily I shoot fairly soft alloy, I think that a jacketed bullet could be a bit of an issue.

After a bit more research I ordered a throat reaming tool and a set of pilots from Brownells. The reaming tool is designed to create a consistent .4525 throat and the pilots go from .448 to .451 in .005 increments. The pilot keeps the reaming tool centered while it is cutting. The idea is to fit the tightest pilot to each throat that can still turn and move in and out. Four of the throats took a .450 pilot and two needed a .4495. I marked each throat with a piece of tape on the outside of the cylinder with the throat size written on it. Put a tap T handle on the reamer with the appropriate pilot, some cutting oil and then going from the cartridge insertion side I reamed out each throat until the pilot passed all the way through along with the cutting edge. Each chamber only took about a minute to do. I then thoroughly cleaned the cylinder and tried inserting the same rounds that would not go before. They dropped right in and flush. I have not been to the range yet so we will see if accuracy has been improved. I will also be loading up a batch of ammo with a bullet sized to .452.

A side note. The reamer and pilots set me back about $140.00 or so. If anyone has the same problem I would be glad to let you borrow the set. I may never use it again (or not) and would be happy to have it get some use.
 
I believe that Colt changed the bore diameter of their SA Army revolvers from .454 to .451 sometime after WWII. Perhaps other gunmakers have followed suit, i.e. 451/452 bullets could solve the problem.
 
Would Ruger fix that type of an issue? I never had any issues with Ruger so no experience with customer service. Great job figuring it out.

The only other time I had an issue with a Ruger their customer service was quite good. In doing my research on the tight throat issue there were a lot of posts on other sites saying that Ruger was really not taking responsibility for this particular problem. In fairness I never contacted them so I do not know first hand. I do know that in the Cowboy Action arena this was so common that there was a fellow who started a business just reaming out Ruger cylinders. He closed down because he was too overwhelmed with business and could not handle it. Also I bought my Vaquero used and it is old so I don't really expect that Ruger would take care of it. All else aside I love figuring out things like this. I find it helps to expand my knowledge base and understanding of how a gun functions. I am probably one of the few who runs into a problem like this and goes; "Oh cool, now I get to tinker." LOL!
 
I believe that Colt changed the bore diameter of their SA Army revolvers from .454 to .451 sometime after WWII. Perhaps other gunmakers have followed suit, i.e. 451/452 bullets could solve the problem.

Good point. I think that going to a .452 or .451 bullet could have solved the chambering issue. However, from everything I have found, pushing a .452 bullet through a .4495 throat will affect accuracy. Especially with a cast bullet. Essentially it is dynamically swaging the bullet down to .4495 which then goes rattling through the .452 barrel without fully contacting the rifling.
 
Cool thread. I've seen this issue before but never been forced to deal with it.

Curious, why .4525 vs anything else (bigger)? It makes sense that you want the throats ever so slightly larger than the bore. Is .0005 the magic number? Why not .001 bigger? I guess, how much too big is too big for the forcing cone?
 
Good point. I think that going to a .452 or .451 bullet could have solved the chambering issue. However, from everything I have found, pushing a .452 bullet through a .4495 throat will affect accuracy. Especially with a cast bullet. Essentially it is dynamically swaging the bullet down to .4495 which then goes rattling through the .452 barrel without fully contacting the rifling.

You'd also get a lot of leading in the barrel as hot gas bypasses (and cuts the sides of) the now-undersized bullet.

I've read the same thing about Ruger Vaqueros chambered in .44-40 (throats smaller than the bore).
 
44-40 Vaquero

You'd also get a lot of leading in the barrel as hot gas bypasses (and cuts the sides of) the now-undersized bullet.

I've read the same thing about Ruger Vaqueros chambered in .44-40 (throats smaller than the bore).

The Ruger 44-40 Vaquero is definitely plagued with this mismatch of measurements.

.425 throats on cylinders and .430-.431 groove (44 Mag barrels)

You are supposed to start with a .427-.428 bullet, which would swage down to .425, then have to grow or obturate to .430 to fill the grooves- NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

Even if you open the throats to .431-.432 in order to satisfy the barrel groove dimension, the chambers aren't large enough to load and chamber a bullet big enough.

The only credable fix I have found so far is to have the chambers reamed and throats cut for a .430 or .431 bullet (John Taylor Machine in washington State) but you need to expand brass with a 44 special or mag die and use brass with a thin neck area (Starline)

Some die sets will not allow the seating and crimping of this size bullet in a 44-40 case.

There is alot involved just to get the right combo of things to make it work, and then you end up with a round that doesn't even look like a traditional 44WCF round (stepped down at the neck portion)

Hope this is all clear

THANKS
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