Three Forms of ID

ochmude

Marine Veteran
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
6,315
Likes
1,785
Location
Yuma, AZ
If a private citizen approaches a LEO and demands to see "your three forms of law enforcement ID, as required by law and that you must show me upon request", does anyone know what that person might even remotely be talking about?

I kinda wish SemiAutoSam wasn't banned right now. I feel like he might be able to shed some light on this.
 

ochmude

Marine Veteran
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
6,315
Likes
1,785
Location
Yuma, AZ
I think it's just some kind of tinfoiler phantasm/bloviation that was never based in fact.

see also:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmIFreeToGo/comments/238827/three_foms_of_id/
I got a bit of a Sovereign Citizen vibe from the guy, but those folks are usually able and eager to cite the sources upon which they base their beliefs. This guy wasn't able to do so when I said I really didn't know what he was talking about. I asked if he meant my driver's license or something, and he said he didn't recognize the authority of the state to issue such licenses so that was not what he was referring to. But he kept on saying "your three forms of ID", rather than just "three forms of ID", as if he was referring to something specific and felt that I was just feigning ignorance in claiming that I didn't know what law he was referring to.
 
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,494
Likes
4,578
Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full-time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing the officer’s photograph and identifying information. The secretary of public safety and security may adopt regulations relative to the form, content and issuance of such identification cards and to the carrying thereof by municipal police officers. Such identification card shall be carried on the officer’s person and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.

I see this only applies to full time officers though, hmmm thats funny.....I also have to wonder what the meaning is of lawful request.

I know this doesnt touch on the 3 forms of ID but heck whos to say your officer ID is really you. So a drivers license would not be a unreasonable request.
Im sure there are other laws that say your required to Identify yourself to your employers/citizens ? Anyway I would think officers would have no issue showing 3 forms of ID upon request, right?
 
Rating - 100%
7   0   0
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
17,818
Likes
3,275
Location
Live Free or Die
it is internet legend so it must be true. as near as I can tell badge and agency ID are the two forms of ID you could throw in a business card I guess or the uniform and the firearm
 

ochmude

Marine Veteran
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
6,315
Likes
1,785
Location
Yuma, AZ
Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full-time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing the officer’s photograph and identifying information. The secretary of public safety and security may adopt regulations relative to the form, content and issuance of such identification cards and to the carrying thereof by municipal police officers. Such identification card shall be carried on the officer’s person and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.
Section 98D of the MGL's? The interaction I posted about took place in Arizona, so I don't think the guy was referencing the Massachusetts General Laws [wink].

Also, just to clarify, this didn't come about from any sort of official interaction at all. I was doing a detainee transfer, driving illegals from my station to an ICE detention facility 224 miles away, about 45 minutes southeast of Phoenix. After completing the transfer, I stopped at a gas station to fill up before heading back to my station, and the guy just walked up to me and engaged me in conversation. He was upset that I was so far north of the border and wanted to know why.

I know this doesnt touch on the 3 forms of ID but heck whos to say your officer ID is really you. So a drivers license would not be a unreasonable request.
Im sure there are other laws that say your required to Identify yourself to your employers/citizens ? Anyway I would think officers would have no issue showing 3 forms of ID upon request, right?
I don't even carry 3 forms of ID, especially at work. Does anyone carry 3 forms of ID routinely?
 

Len-2A Training

Instructor
Instructor
NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 98.1%
52   1   0
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
51,436
Likes
9,116
Location
Escaping to NH
Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full-time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing the officer’s photograph and identifying information. The secretary of public safety and security may adopt regulations relative to the form, content and issuance of such identification cards and to the carrying thereof by municipal police officers. Such identification card shall be carried on the officer’s person and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.

I see this only applies to full time officers though, hmmm thats funny.....I also have to wonder what the meaning is of lawful request.

I know this doesnt touch on the 3 forms of ID but heck whos to say your officer ID is really you. So a drivers license would not be a unreasonable request.
Im sure there are other laws that say your required to Identify yourself to your employers/citizens ? Anyway I would think officers would have no issue showing 3 forms of ID upon request, right?
Not true, at least in states that won't block a home address for LEOs on DLs/Reg (some states do). MGL C. 66 S. 10(d) provides some confidentiality for LEOs wrt exposure of their home addresses.

Most people don't carry 3 forms of ID. MA may be different for LEOs since DL, LTC and Police ID = 3
 

Kevin_NH

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
7,760
Likes
1,530
Location
WNW of MHT
MGL 41 § 98d does require cops to carry ONE identification card

Until recently, I didn't even have 3 forms of government issued ID, and only rarely carried two. I'm also shocked at how many times I've seen a business card or other ephemera accepted as "ID".

No idea why cops would be held to a higher standard, though Massachusetts does require cops to carry and show ID, see MGL 41 § 98d
 
Last edited:
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,494
Likes
4,578
Not true, at least in states that won't block a home address for LEOs on DLs/Reg (some states do). MGL C. 66 S. 10(d) provides some confidentiality for LEOs wrt exposure of their home addresses.

Most people don't carry 3 forms of ID. MA may be different for LEOs since DL, LTC and Police ID = 3
Yeah 3 forms of ID would be tough.....depends what's acceptable as ID I guess.
I'm just sitting here on the coach trying to ignore the pain in my hip.

I would just think if someone asked you for your ID you would just show them with out hesitation.
Here yah go pal. My work ID, copy of my business card, call me if any questions...got to go now.
 

jasons

Moderator
Moderator
NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
43   0   0
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
15,794
Likes
3,400
Pretty sure it's something that some guy made up to mess with his stoner cousin.
 

ochmude

Marine Veteran
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
6,315
Likes
1,785
Location
Yuma, AZ
it is internet legend so it must be true. as near as I can tell badge and agency ID are the two forms of ID you could throw in a business card I guess or the uniform and the firearm
We don't have badge numbers, and in fact there's a small engraving on the back of our badges saying that they don't serve as ID or convey any authority. Our creds are ID, but our badges really are just ornamental, and also aren't worn on our uniforms. Our uniform shirts just have a fabric badge patch sewn on. I'm also not important enough to have business cards.
 

FPrice

Retired Zoomie
NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
68   0   0
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Messages
19,110
Likes
4,302
Location
Western Mass
I don't even carry 3 forms of ID, especially at work. Does anyone carry 3 forms of ID routinely?
I have three forms of picture ID on my person virtually all the time, but that is somewhat unique to my personal life. My MA drivers license, my military ID, and my MA LTC.
 

ochmude

Marine Veteran
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
6,315
Likes
1,785
Location
Yuma, AZ
I have three forms of picture ID on my person virtually all the time, but that is somewhat unique to my personal life. My MA drivers license, my military ID, and my MA LTC.
Good idea, I think I still have my MA LTC! I wonder if he would have accepted that [laugh]
 

jasons

Moderator
Moderator
NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
43   0   0
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
15,794
Likes
3,400
He was upset that I was so far north of the border and wanted to know why.
"I really can't say sir, but it totally has nothing to do with us giving Arizona back to Mexico next week."
 
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,494
Likes
4,578
Good idea, I think I still have my MA LTC! I wonder if he would have accepted that [laugh]
Would have been great if you did.....he might think your extra special for being able to own guns that far north.
Crazy, heck I had a women demand I give her a copy of my auto mechanics license. She was shocked to find you don't need one in Massachusetts. My ASE certs where enough for her.
 
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,494
Likes
4,578
Not true, at least in states that won't block a home address for LEOs on DLs/Reg (some states do). MGL C. 66 S. 10(d) provides some confidentiality for LEOs wrt exposure of their home addresses.

Most people don't carry 3 forms of ID. MA may be different for LEOs since DL, LTC and Police ID = 3
Be nice if our IDs where void of home address also....
 

Kevin_NH

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
7,760
Likes
1,530
Location
WNW of MHT
Be nice if our IDs where void of home address also....
In several states (including NH), if you provide a PO Box as your mailing address, you still have to provide your "legal address" to the state, but they don't print your home address on your ID (unless you ask them to). You can also opt out of sharing your photo with [thread=283866]NLETS[/thread].
 

Darksideblues42

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
2,355
Likes
1,621
Location
Hudson, MA
I have 5 forms of photo ID on me most of the time.

MA DL
Passport Card
Global Entry Card
MA LTC
NEXUS card

On the road, I have my passport at all times too.

Not a LEO, Just interested in the overall topic.
 
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
15,393
Likes
8,518
Location
Southern NH
I had once read something or seen a video where someone claimed to have a reference for this but I have no idea what and don't remember where I saw it. It's totally a sovereign citizen thing. There are a ton of videos of people asking not just for ID but for three forms of ID specifically. Actually I'm pretty sure I've seen videos from Canada and the UK of the same. Other than that one example I saw I have never been able to find any mention of a legal reference anywhere.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
3,710
Likes
1,441
Location
Louisiana
Section 98D of the MGL's? The interaction I posted about took place in Arizona, so I don't think the guy was referencing the Massachusetts General Laws [wink].

Also, just to clarify, this didn't come about from any sort of official interaction at all. I was doing a detainee transfer, driving illegals from my station to an ICE detention facility 224 miles away, about 45 minutes southeast of Phoenix. After completing the transfer, I stopped at a gas station to fill up before heading back to my station, and the guy just walked up to me and engaged me in conversation. He was upset that I was so far north of the border and wanted to know why.


I don't even carry 3 forms of ID, especially at work. Does anyone carry 3 forms of ID routinely?
You should try the northern border. "What you doing here?" I pull out a map and show I'm currently sitting 2 miles from the border. Yes, there are bad people in Canada, same as everywhere else.
I also used to cite the INA's regarding immigration enforcement and there is no specific limitation within the United States, but I'm just tired of doing that anymore. I just say 'Border Patrol' is a legacy name for the enforcement branch for our immigration laws. We are proud of our heritage and have fought changing the name every time it's come up. That generally clears it up for most. Some just want to argue, I wish them a good day.
 

SpaceCritter

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
12,961
Likes
6,465
Location
In Orbit
I don't even carry 3 forms of ID, especially at work. Does anyone carry 3 forms of ID routinely?
1. CT DL*
2. CT Pistol Permit*
3. NH NR P&R License
4. US Passport*
5. IE Passport*

1-3 live in wallet; 4-5 live in left cargo pocket.

* = Photo ID
 
Top Bottom