1. If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

  2. Dismiss Notice

Three Forms of ID

Discussion in 'LEO Bubbas' started by ochmude, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. ochmude

    ochmude Marine Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    If a private citizen approaches a LEO and demands to see "your three forms of law enforcement ID, as required by law and that you must show me upon request", does anyone know what that person might even remotely be talking about?

    I kinda wish SemiAutoSam wasn't banned right now. I feel like he might be able to shed some light on this.
     

  2. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    65,962
    Likes Received:
    21,878
  3. ochmude

    ochmude Marine Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    I got a bit of a Sovereign Citizen vibe from the guy, but those folks are usually able and eager to cite the sources upon which they base their beliefs. This guy wasn't able to do so when I said I really didn't know what he was talking about. I asked if he meant my driver's license or something, and he said he didn't recognize the authority of the state to issue such licenses so that was not what he was referring to. But he kept on saying "your three forms of ID", rather than just "three forms of ID", as if he was referring to something specific and felt that I was just feigning ignorance in claiming that I didn't know what law he was referring to.
     
  4. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    26,008
    Likes Received:
    3,670
    Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full-time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing the officer’s photograph and identifying information. The secretary of public safety and security may adopt regulations relative to the form, content and issuance of such identification cards and to the carrying thereof by municipal police officers. Such identification card shall be carried on the officer’s person and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.

    I see this only applies to full time officers though, hmmm thats funny.....I also have to wonder what the meaning is of lawful request.

    I know this doesnt touch on the 3 forms of ID but heck whos to say your officer ID is really you. So a drivers license would not be a unreasonable request.
    Im sure there are other laws that say your required to Identify yourself to your employers/citizens ? Anyway I would think officers would have no issue showing 3 forms of ID upon request, right?
     
  5. Boghog1

    Boghog1

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    17,818
    Likes Received:
    3,274
    Location:
    Live Free or Die
    it is internet legend so it must be true. as near as I can tell badge and agency ID are the two forms of ID you could throw in a business card I guess or the uniform and the firearm
     
  6. ochmude

    ochmude Marine Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    Section 98D of the MGL's? The interaction I posted about took place in Arizona, so I don't think the guy was referencing the Massachusetts General Laws [wink].

    Also, just to clarify, this didn't come about from any sort of official interaction at all. I was doing a detainee transfer, driving illegals from my station to an ICE detention facility 224 miles away, about 45 minutes southeast of Phoenix. After completing the transfer, I stopped at a gas station to fill up before heading back to my station, and the guy just walked up to me and engaged me in conversation. He was upset that I was so far north of the border and wanted to know why.

    I don't even carry 3 forms of ID, especially at work. Does anyone carry 3 forms of ID routinely?
     
  7. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    50,756
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    Not true, at least in states that won't block a home address for LEOs on DLs/Reg (some states do). MGL C. 66 S. 10(d) provides some confidentiality for LEOs wrt exposure of their home addresses.

    Most people don't carry 3 forms of ID. MA may be different for LEOs since DL, LTC and Police ID = 3
     
  8. Marine-daughter

    Marine-daughter

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes Received:
    605
  9. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    7,586
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Location:
    WNW of MHT
    MGL 41 § 98d does require cops to carry ONE identification card

    Until recently, I didn't even have 3 forms of government issued ID, and only rarely carried two. I'm also shocked at how many times I've seen a business card or other ephemera accepted as "ID".

    No idea why cops would be held to a higher standard, though Massachusetts does require cops to carry and show ID, see MGL 41 § 98d
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  10. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    26,008
    Likes Received:
    3,670
    Yeah 3 forms of ID would be tough.....depends what's acceptable as ID I guess.
    I'm just sitting here on the coach trying to ignore the pain in my hip.

    I would just think if someone asked you for your ID you would just show them with out hesitation.
    Here yah go pal. My work ID, copy of my business card, call me if any questions...got to go now.
     
  11. jasons

    jasons Moderator Moderator NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    15,782
    Likes Received:
    3,380
    Pretty sure it's something that some guy made up to mess with his stoner cousin.
     
  12. ochmude

    ochmude Marine Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    We don't have badge numbers, and in fact there's a small engraving on the back of our badges saying that they don't serve as ID or convey any authority. Our creds are ID, but our badges really are just ornamental, and also aren't worn on our uniforms. Our uniform shirts just have a fabric badge patch sewn on. I'm also not important enough to have business cards.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. FPrice

    FPrice Retired Zoomie NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    18,606
    Likes Received:
    3,616
    Location:
    Western Mass
    I have three forms of picture ID on my person virtually all the time, but that is somewhat unique to my personal life. My MA drivers license, my military ID, and my MA LTC.
     
  14. ochmude

    ochmude Marine Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,315
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    Good idea, I think I still have my MA LTC! I wonder if he would have accepted that [laugh]
     
  15. spcantwell

    spcantwell NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    701
    Location:
    Somerset, Ma
    Yep, 2 different ccl's and a driver license. Do library cards count?

    Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
     
  16. jasons

    jasons Moderator Moderator NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    15,782
    Likes Received:
    3,380
    "I really can't say sir, but it totally has nothing to do with us giving Arizona back to Mexico next week."
     
  17. FPrice

    FPrice Retired Zoomie NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    18,606
    Likes Received:
    3,616
    Location:
    Western Mass
    How about a Concealed Carry Badge? It would probably wow the tinfoil crowd.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    26,008
    Likes Received:
    3,670
    Would have been great if you did.....he might think your extra special for being able to own guns that far north.
    Crazy, heck I had a women demand I give her a copy of my auto mechanics license. She was shocked to find you don't need one in Massachusetts. My ASE certs where enough for her.
     
  19. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    26,008
    Likes Received:
    3,670
    Be nice if our IDs where void of home address also....
     
  20. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    7,586
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Location:
    WNW of MHT
    In several states (including NH), if you provide a PO Box as your mailing address, you still have to provide your "legal address" to the state, but they don't print your home address on your ID (unless you ask them to). You can also opt out of sharing your photo with [thread=283866]NLETS[/thread].
     
  21. Darksideblues42

    Darksideblues42 NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,167
    Likes Received:
    1,261
    Location:
    Hudson, MA
    I have 5 forms of photo ID on me most of the time.

    MA DL
    Passport Card
    Global Entry Card
    MA LTC
    NEXUS card

    On the road, I have my passport at all times too.

    Not a LEO, Just interested in the overall topic.
     
  22. Bonesinium

    Bonesinium NES Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    14,237
    Likes Received:
    6,684
    Location:
    Southern NH
    I had once read something or seen a video where someone claimed to have a reference for this but I have no idea what and don't remember where I saw it. It's totally a sovereign citizen thing. There are a ton of videos of people asking not just for ID but for three forms of ID specifically. Actually I'm pretty sure I've seen videos from Canada and the UK of the same. Other than that one example I saw I have never been able to find any mention of a legal reference anywhere.
     
  23. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,907
    Likes Received:
    4,597
    Location:
    On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!
    Let's see:

    Mass LTC
    Mass FID
    Mass Driver's License
    Utah Permit
    Town-issued Alcohol Server's license

    I guess I'm covered! [laugh]
     
  24. weekendracer

    weekendracer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,351
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Location:
    Louisiana
    You should try the northern border. "What you doing here?" I pull out a map and show I'm currently sitting 2 miles from the border. Yes, there are bad people in Canada, same as everywhere else.
    I also used to cite the INA's regarding immigration enforcement and there is no specific limitation within the United States, but I'm just tired of doing that anymore. I just say 'Border Patrol' is a legacy name for the enforcement branch for our immigration laws. We are proud of our heritage and have fought changing the name every time it's come up. That generally clears it up for most. Some just want to argue, I wish them a good day.
     
    1 person likes this.
  25. pastera

    pastera

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,760
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Location:
    Taunton
    I do but I need two different DOD issued IDs just to get into work.

    Sent from my C6530 using Tapatalk
     
  26. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    14,407
    Likes Received:
    5,095
    Location:
    Somewhere in the sands of time
    Your papers please
     
  27. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    11,303
    Likes Received:
    4,655
    Location:
    In Orbit
    1. CT DL*
    2. CT Pistol Permit*
    3. NH NR P&R License
    4. US Passport*
    5. IE Passport*

    1-3 live in wallet; 4-5 live in left cargo pocket.

    * = Photo ID
     
  28. FPrice

    FPrice Retired Zoomie NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    18,606
    Likes Received:
    3,616
    Location:
    Western Mass
    You must work in some sort of a high security facility.
     
  29. pastera

    pastera

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,760
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Location:
    Taunton
    Not really. It is what happens when two different commands have a pissing match over access control.

    Sent from my C6530 using Tapatalk
     
  30. FPrice

    FPrice Retired Zoomie NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    18,606
    Likes Received:
    3,616
    Location:
    Western Mass
    Ahhhhh, don't you just love those arguments?
     

Share This Page