This is why you check headspace: KABOOM

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This is why you headspace a barrel, because manufacturers apparently have different idea of what safe conditions are in a rifle and because some of them bore feed ramps more aggressively than they should. That is my opinion, here are the facts.

First of all, here is a comparison of chamber seating with several 9mm barrel mfg:


The best case support (works great):
D0C79D22-070D-4737-8E07-FF0BDF8A19B5_zpsjou6hpe9.jpg

2E392181-D12B-45D3-A5A7-5761EA243071_zpsdgzgujui.jpg



OK case support (but no bulging or rupture):
PICT0259.jpg



Deep feed ramp that led to case bulging:
8156835535_7e999a4f8c_z.jpg



My equally deep feed ramp that led to case bulging and rupture:
2C0425E9-FE86-4A32-97AA-9533FF4BF82F_zpspfxckgam.jpg

9E7FF01C-AA71-4383-9AE6-BDAEB51C325A_zpselcxwxkf.jpg





Because 1/4" of the case wall is already exposed, even the slightest mischamber caused by dirt in the chamber or slightly larger rounds can cause unsafe conditions resulting in case ruptures. Also, any weaker brass will bulge at the least and rupture at the worst.


This is where another warning comes into play when you purchase ammo (or choose brass) for use in a 9mm AR: Tula and some of the chinese mfg's have weaker brass than say, Winchester, Remington, or Federal. These are Tula cases that were fired through a 9mm AR pattern rifle with a dedicated CMMG lower, CMMG 9mm ramped bolt, and my ADCO barrel pictured above:


089_zpslvj1smfy.jpg

092_zpsobwzwers.jpg

090_zpsnrz2ot9h.jpg



After inspection and a "gentle" test fire, we fired a few more shots off and got this case rupture along with a cracked upper that caused the bolt to fly off track, sheer the buffer retaining pin, and snap the bolt catch:


096_zpsyyapkiw9.jpg

095_zpst8ur2utm.jpg

099_zpslwuatlui.jpg



087_zps2fyid4cu.jpg

088_zpspkjmc0ei.jpg

086_zpsaggyuj4n.jpg

085_zpshfw9bekj.jpg





Even after being confronted with this information, the mfg states that the barrel is in spec and that this is how all of his barrels are made. He fired six rounds through the barrel of various high end mfg's and did not have any problems.


MY case ruptures occurred after roughly 200 rounds had been fired through the gun so there was dirt and heat compounding the poorly designed feed ramps and barrel. The mfg has offered to refund my money and that is all. He maintains that the barrel is cut to spec and that the design of the barrel did not lead to the case ruptures. I had the barrel checked by a local gun smith who confirmed that the feed ramps exposed too much of the case wall and that he would not use such a barrel, considering it unsafe and suggested sending it back to the mfg.
 
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That'll ruin your day.

Did you buy that as a complete upper, or did you assemble it? If bought complete, who made the upper?
 
I know where I'm not buying a barrel. As you said, the Tula ammo is a cheaper quality, but if the case wasn't so exposed, the rupture wouldn't have happened. I still place the most blame on barrel/feedramp design. There is no reason to have that much brass exposed - its made to expand, and without the steel to contain that expansion, this is the result.

Still thankful it didn't ruin your tax-stamped lower! Phewww!!!
 
Just for the record, I had run some the same brass through my P226 and Glock 17 with no adverse effects.
 
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This thread got me curious ( and a little worried)

heres my Green Mountain 9mm barrel ( awaiting parts for build)

image.jpg

image.jpg
 
This thread got me curious ( and a little worried)

heres my Green Mountain 9mm barrel ( awaiting parts for build)

View attachment 134478

View attachment 134479


That matches what I have seen from ADCO and QC10, both companies with documented case bulging and ruptures.

There seems to be two approaches to the feed ramps: One that exposes a ton of case wall and one that exposes very little or almost none.

I have yet to find any evidence that the latter causes any feeding problems but the former definitely has the risk of problems.

If you shoot only factory brass like Federal or Winchester its probably not going to be an issue but for those of us who reload 9mm, we don't separate head stamps. That raises the concern for a case rupture.

The risk is raised with the 9mm AR system because you don't have a rotating bolt with locking lugs so as long as the hammer can smack even a tiny sliver of the firing pin your primer will ignite. That means if a little dirt gets in there and your case doesn't chamber by an additional 1/16th of an inch you have that much more case wall exposed.

That is too much risk for me.
 
What manufactur is the 3rd pic.

OK case support (but no bulging or rupture):

while my GM barrel isn't as great support as the TRenabling.. I don't think it's as bad as the ADCO barrel either. Somewhere in the middle.. Like the 3rd pic.

I"ll have to do some more reading. I don't reload but don't want to chance it either.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the point of a 9mm AR15? Why not leave the rifle .223/5.56 (as originally designed), and save 9mm ammo for a pistol (as originally designed)?
Not trying to pull anyone's leg, just really wondering why bother adapting a rifle to a pistol caliber.
 
For some people it's simply about variety and fun, for others it's ammunition cost/availability, and some others may not have access to a rifle range so a pistol caliber is a viable option. Also, it's fun to line up on the pistol plate racks with an AR and freak people out.
 
In addition, Pistol Caliber Carbines may safely use much shorter barrels so you can make some really nice and effective SBR's.

Think of an MP5 that can use AR accessories.
 
Interesting timing for this. soloman02 and I were having issues on Sunday with my 9mm AR not going in to battery fully, and bulging the crap out of cases. It's also an ADCO barrel, CMMG ramped bolt, and CMMG lower. I just assumed it was because it has like 400 suppressed rounds on it without a cleaning. I'll need to get that thing apart and cleaned this week and further check the chamber.
 
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Pardon my ignorance, but what's the point of a 9mm AR15? Why not leave the rifle .223/5.56 (as originally designed), and save 9mm ammo for a pistol (as originally designed)?
Not trying to pull anyone's leg, just really wondering why bother adapting a rifle to a pistol caliber.

SBR's
 
Sounds like a lot of junk parts out there. Not surprised though. The problem with the "AR build" market is half the builders are skinflints, and as a result half the parts are junk or mediocre.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the point of a 9mm AR15? Why not leave the rifle .223/5.56 (as originally designed), and save 9mm ammo for a pistol (as originally designed)?
Not trying to pull anyone's leg, just really wondering why bother adapting a rifle to a pistol caliber.

There are a ton of shitty indoor club ranges that only have pistol rated backstops. 9mm is also still cheaper than 5.56, and it's not nearly as gay as .22LR is.
 
Interesting timing for this. soloman02 and I were having issues on Sunday with my 9mm AR not going in to battery fully, and bulging the crap out of cases. It's also an ADCO barrel, CMMG ramped bolt, and CMMG lower. I just assumed it was because it has like 400 suppressed rounds on it without a cleaning. I'll need to get that thing apart and cleaned this week and further check the chamber.

Yea, this is very interesting. Well, it does prove the ZQI ammo is good, though I still think the ZQI has hard primers.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the point of a 9mm AR15? Why not leave the rifle .223/5.56 (as originally designed), and save 9mm ammo for a pistol (as originally designed)?
Not trying to pull anyone's leg, just really wondering why bother adapting a rifle to a pistol caliber.


Same reason I built ak in 45acp and helping a few build them in 9mm and other pistol cals.
There fun little guns are they have there uses . I like sub machine guns so a semi is the closest I can own for now.
But plinking with a piston carbine is fun and cheaper then 5.56/5.45/7.62x39
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the point of a 9mm AR15? Why not leave the rifle .223/5.56 (as originally designed), and save 9mm ammo for a pistol (as originally designed)?
Not trying to pull anyone's leg, just really wondering why bother adapting a rifle to a pistol caliber.

Two-stamp that thing. Suppressed SBR.
 
Excellent info, thanks for posting. I don't currently have a 9mm AR, but plan to do one eventually so this is great stuff to know!
 
I ordered a new CMMG barrel and I will update the thread when I install and test it this weekend.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what's the point of a 9mm AR15? Why not leave the rifle .223/5.56 (as originally designed), and save 9mm ammo for a pistol (as originally designed)?
Not trying to pull anyone's leg, just really wondering why bother adapting a rifle to a pistol caliber.

Allows one to fire the rifle at a pistol range.
 
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