• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

The Socialist Pledge of Allegiance

number9 said:
The Constitution was written in 1774, "In God We Trust" was added to paper currency in 1955. We got by without it for 180 years, so I don't think it's fair (not that I'm accusing you) to talk about it in a historical (as in the Framers) context.
Click to expand...

I obviously wasn't talking about it as in the Framer's intent. I was talking about it in the "who really cares" intent. It certainly wasn't AGAINST the Framer's intent. It's just one more thing we've changed. Like adding stars to the flag.
 
Martlet said:
I obviously wasn't talking about it as in the Framer's intent. I was talking about it in the "who really cares" intent. It certainly wasn't AGAINST the Framer's intent. It's just one more thing we've changed. Like adding stars to the flag.
Click to expand...
I know, I wanted to point out that I didn't think that's what you were saying; only that the two issues (Pledge, Under God) are from different centuries but yet some people equate intent of the two.
 
number9 said:
The Constitution was written in 1774, "In God We Trust" was added to paper currency in 1955. We got by without it for 180 years, so I don't think it's fair (not that I'm accusing you) to talk about it in a historical (as in the Framers) context.
Click to expand...

So, my 1895 and 1921 silver dollars that plainly say, "In God We Trust" is null and void?
 
TonyD said:
So, my 1895 and 1921 silver dollars that plainly say, "In God We Trust" is null and void?
Click to expand...
It was on some coins in the late 1800s and early 1900s, then it was made into law in 1955 for all coins and paper currency.
 
Ripach said:
Fortunately for me "socialist public schools" don't raise my children I do. My wife is a school teacher and will tell you that almost without exception the word of a young child's parents is gospel to them regardless of who contradicts it or how. Lets stop blaming others for our children's ideals and morals and start taking responsibility.

As for our individual opinions of the Pledge,
I will agree to disagree with you.[grin]
Click to expand...

It's commendable that you take responsibility for raising your kid's rather than leaving it up to the schools as many seem to do.

The reason I mentioned the schools is this. Central to the issue being discussed here is the fact that the Pledge is practiced in public schools run by the government. These schools are providing biased and inaccurate information about the US and political issues in general for the purpose of advancing a leftist agenda. Then the students are asked to pledge allegiance to the government. Even though I would not do it, if someone wants to force their kids to make the pledge while at home and out of public school then that's their business and is none of mine.

Yes we will have to agree to disagree. But I'm glad you jumped in with your opinion.
 
Martlet said:
I agree. Now could you show me where the PoA has anything to do with obedience?
Click to expand...

Sure.

There are three variations of allegiance. Natural or implied allegiance arises from the connection a person has with the society in which he is born or has been naturalized. The fact that one is a citizen and wishes to remain a citizen implies a certain amount of support for the government.

Temporary allegiance is from a legal alien to the government or state in which they reside.

Express allegiance is what we are talking about with the Pledge of Allegiance. Express allegiance creates an obligation from an express promise. It is with this type of allegiance that it is reasonably inferred that the person making the pledge agrees with and will be obedient to the current laws of that government including refraining from any act that is prohibited.
 
Cato said:
Sure.



Express allegiance is what we are talking about with the Pledge of Allegiance. Express allegiance creates an obligation from an express promise. It is with this type of allegiance that it is reasonably inferred that the person making the pledge agrees with and will be obedient to the current laws of that government including refraining from any act that is prohibited.
Click to expand...

That's a fallacy. Allegiance is pledged to the flag and the republic for which it stands. You aren't pledging obedience to the current laws of any gov't, but to the system upon which this nation is founded. It's quite clear.
 
You're wrong. One can not pledge allegiance to the past. That's not what the word means.
 
Cato said:
You're wrong. One can not pledge allegiance to the past. That's not what the word means.
Click to expand...

I'm 100% correct. One isn't pledging allegiance to the past. They are pledging allegiance to flag as a symbol of the system upon which this nation was founded. It's pretty clearly spelled out.
 
Martlet said:
I'm 100% correct. One isn't pledging allegiance to the past. They are pledging allegiance to flag as a symbol of the system upon which this nation was founded. It's pretty clearly spelled out.
Click to expand...

Where is the word "founded" or "system" found in the Pledge? You are pledging allegiance to the republic which the flag stands for.

I'm not going to get hung up on this point. You don't understand it and that's ok.
 
calsdad said:
The allegiance and the Declaration of Independence are mutually exclusive of each other. You either believe in the right to throw off unjust government - like the southern states attempted to do during the Civil war - you either believe in the right to institute a new government - when the one you have is not doing what it is supposed to do - or you believe in total allegiance to the present government of the United States - and you believe that the country is "indivisible" - as defined by the pledge of allegiance.
Click to expand...

Great point calsdad.

Speaking of the Civil War, in the period following the war there was a power grab by the national government. Before the war "United States" was plural unlike today when it is considered singular. It was a union of separate states with a very limited federal government. Those who wanted to centralize the power in the federal government used many methods one of which was forcing students in public schools to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. As calsdad points out part of the reason was to brainwash the idea in to the students that the republic was indivisible.

The same thing is happening today with the North American Union and the United Nations. Many believe that individual nation sovereignty is an outdated idea and not conducive to peace. They want to merge nations into regional unions and ultimately in to a one world government.

Perhaps the future Pledge of Allegiance would go like this:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Nations of the world,
And to the republic for which it stands,
One world, under Mother Earth, indivisible,
With liberty and justice for all,
Subject to the restrictions and conditions in the Declaration of Human Rights.
 
Last edited:
You know if you dislike it here so much, try out some of these other third world shit holes, where you can't even spout your liberal crap.[angry] Then see how much you really do appreciate living in this country, which so many of us have sworn to defend so you can sit back and enjoy those benefits.
 
MrsWildweasel said:
You know if you dislike it here so much, try out some of these other third world shit holes, where you can't even spout your liberal crap.[angry] Then see how much you really do appreciate living in this country, which so many of us have sworn to defend so you can sit back and enjoy those benefits.
Click to expand...

It is you who believes in a great and powerful central government who is the liberal. Conservatives like me believe in a very limited federal government that does not need to indoctrinate youth.

Do you know the difference between a liberal and conservative? I doubt it.

Please refrain from the insults and keep the thread on topic. Thanks.
 
I do know the difference between a conservative and a liberal. This crap that you and a few other keep spouting, gets really old. I am not insulting anyone, just stating if you don't like living here try somewhere else.
 
I'm sure that there's still some useful points to be made here, so everyone please take a deep breath and relax before posting so that those points can make their way past the intermittent adrenaline surges. [wink]

Ken
 
MrsWildweasel said:
I do know the difference between a conservative and a liberal.
Click to expand...

Then you should recognize that my strong opposition to big centralized government and anything socialistic including Bellamy throughout this thread is a conservative viewpoint.

Ok, back on topic.
 
Cato said:
Then you should recognize that my strong opposition to big centralized government and anything socialistic including Bellamy throughout this thread is a conservative viewpoint.

Ok, back on topic.
Click to expand...

Then why keep beating a dead horse?
 
Cato said:
Where is the word "founded" or "system" found in the Pledge? You are pledging allegiance to the republic which the flag stands for.

I'm not going to get hung up on this point. You don't understand it and that's ok.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Allegiance to the republic, for which the flag stands. Not obedience to current laws of the gov't.

Don't get hung up on the point. You don't understand it, and that's ok.
 

Similar threads

Samuel Whittemore - The inventor of FAFO
Replies
7
Views
367
gerrycaruso
gerrycaruso
Interesting Article on the "Notching" of Firearms to Keep Track of "Kills"
Replies
8
Views
362
clampett
clampett
Yesterday Was The 10 Year Anniversary Of The Bundy Family Cattle Ranch Standoff Against The BLM
Replies
4
Views
241
Matt_SERE
Matt_SERE
The cause of poor accuracy was the stock? Maybe……..
Replies
7
Views
305
Taipan01
Taipan01
For those who question the strength of M2A1 vs M2A2 ammo cans, here's an interesting article on the subject.
Replies
12
Views
373
Uzi2
U
Back
Top Bottom