The Patron Saint of "Handgunners"

[Bruff]

Good article from the Catholic News Service published in this past Sunday's Boston Pilot. Don't know how many Catholics are here on NES, but this little newspaper is usually available as you walk out...

St. Gabriel Possenti of Italy is said to have used a handgun to protect a woman from marauders

LINK: http://www.thebostonpilot.com/article.asp?ID=10645

Fair and balanced article....The U.S. Bishops position on handguns is practically a regurgitation of Brady talking points. Note that their position paper is from 1975, theres been no word post-Heller

Also quoted is a former Jesuit who thinks "the Catholic church is hypocritical by not supporting RKBA when it is the prime supporter of the right to life."

 

[cekim]

Also quoted is a former Jesuit who thinks "the Catholic church is hypocritical by not supporting RKBA when it is the prime supporter of the right to life."

That's putting it lightly...

"Him who has no sword, sell his cloak and buy one" -Jesus...

But hey, we've been ignoring the teachings of that loon for 2000 years, why stop now...

 

[Twigg]

There is a website for St. Gabriel Francis Possenti.

There are a booklet covering self defense and the bible, tokens, a lapel pin and medallions bearing the likeness if St. Possenti available for purchase.

I have an idea to purchase some tokens and drop one in the collection basket from time to time.

 

[Kicker96FS]

That's putting it lightly...

"Him who has no sword, sell his cloak and buy one" -Jesus...

But hey, we've been ignoring the teachings of that loon for 2000 years, why stop now...

He didn't mean that in a literal sense, he was telling them that change was coming and to be prepared, as if you were going into battle.

Don't forget, he also said "he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword".

 

[FiremanBob]

Isn't the definition of "lives by the sword" one who uses his weapon offensively to do or threaten violence to others? Seems to me that doesn't apply to defense or righteous revolution.

 

[cekim]

Isn't the definition of "lives by the sword" one who uses his weapon offensively to do or threaten violence to others? Seems to me that doesn't apply to defense or righteous revolution.

Yes, there is lengthy discussion in the bible and about the bible that points out the fallacy of reading "pacifism" into Jesus' teachings...

But obviously as we have seen in the last 2000 years, you can read most anything you want into the twisted/translated prose of the bible...

 

[John2]

In those times by the time you exhibited pacificism, you were dead. Non-violence is a recent "civilized" odity, hypocritical at best in a dangerous world.

 

[seanc]

I joined myself, and my GF up a couple of years ago..
We got the nice little medals..

And on a related note.. St. Thomas Aquinas' "Just War Theory" in my mind, pretty much spells out the justification on the use of force.

 

[Pilgrim]

he who turns his swords into plowshares, will plow for those who don't.

 

[seanc]

From Aquinas' "Just War theory" quoting St. Augustine quite a bit..

"Reply to Objection 2. Such like precepts, as Augustine observes (De Serm. Dom. in Monte i, 19), should always be borne in readiness of mind, so that we be ready to obey them, and, if necessary, to refrain from resistance or self-defense. Nevertheless it is necessary sometimes for a man to act otherwise for the common good, or for the good of those with whom he is fighting. Hence Augustine says (Ep. ad Marcellin. cxxxviii): "Those whom we have to punish with a kindly severity, it is necessary to handle in many ways against their will. For when we are stripping a man of the lawlessness of sin, it is good for him to be vanquished, since nothing is more hopeless than the happiness of sinners, whence arises a guilty impunity, and an evil will, like an internal enemy."

Reply to Objection 3. Those who wage war justly aim at peace, and so they are not opposed to peace, except to the evil peace, which Our Lord "came not to send upon earth" (Matthew 10:34). Hence Augustine says (Ep. ad Bonif. clxxxix): "We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace."

 

[JRyan]

He didn't mean that in a literal sense, he was telling them that change was coming and to be prepared, as if you were going into battle.

Don't forget, he also said "he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword".

Which does not mean if you carry you will be shot. You can't call someone on a slight bending of a quote and throw up an even bigger one.

 

[cekim]

aka "peace through superior fire power."

+1 for the Gipper...

Crap, another bible/abortion/cat thread... IBTL

 

[Sprocket]

+1 for the Gipper...

Crap, another bible/abortion/cat thread... IBTL

Can you kill aborted feral cats with a bible? Just asking.

 

[Kicker96FS]

Why not?!

 

[KMaurer]

From the Catechism Of The Catholic Church:

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's. 66

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

...

65 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II, 64, 7, corp. art.
66 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II, 64, 7, corp. art.

 

[tuna]

"Him who has no sword, sell his cloak and buy one" -Jesus...

Be careful when you use that line - the next lines are "The disciples said, 'See, Lord, here are two swords'. 'That is enough', he replied.


We surely don't want an antigun biblical literalist to say that we shouldn't own more than 2.

 

[seanc]

If it was good enough for St. Peter to go around "packin' heat".. That's good enough for me..

 

[cekim]

Be careful when you use that line - the next lines are "The disciples said, 'See, Lord, here are two swords'. 'That is enough', he replied.

We surely don't want an antigun biblical literalist to say that we shouldn't own more than 2.

Of course, I'd put good money on a lousy translation of that "that is enough", but indeed, this is why I don't run my life from the literal text of the bible...

Whatever you believe of its intent or inspiration, it is the work of man and in its details as flawed as any man (which is to say - VERY)...

I take the big important lessons and ignore the details..

 

[JRyan]

Why not?!

touche and well played.