So what is the answer?

[richc]

I'm an old shit now. Grew up in the 50's and 60's in Dorchester.

I hate this phrase, I'll use it anyways. When I was a boy, we didn't have this shit going on. I didn't know anyone who got shot. I knew several that were stabbed. Ass beatings with fists were rather common. But kids didn't die often. One friend, Dave Carney, was gutted over use of a basketball court. Other than vehicular deaths, that was the only friend I lost to violence.

Didn't need a license to buy a guy. They were sold in many hardware stores and even the Sears catalog. At one time you could buy a machine gun in the Sears catalog. They were really quite easy to get.

My point... something has changed big time. Guns were easier to get. Completely legal. Yet we didn't have these crimes.

There's been a change in society that's driving this. I think some of the posts above are contributing factors. The failure of our mental health care systems. Loss of family values (i.e. dinner at the table with the family). Psychopharmaceuticals that have unknown and dangerous side effects.

But I also blame the loss of the two parent household. It's damn hard raising kids with both parents. With only one parent who likely needs to work and raise the kids, it's damn near impossible.

I'll also put some emphasis on the widening gap between the haves and have nots. The have nots, by necessity, often live in the poorest of neighborhoods where rents are cheapest. These neighborhoods are often infested with gangs, drug use is rampant, and the pressure on kids to take a bad path is enormous. Oh, and these neighborhoods often have the absolute worst of schools. The education is awful. How the hell does any kid escape that environment unscathed?

Society has changed, and not for the better. In some areas there is zero value on a human life. It's the law of the jungle.

And now for my parting shot... Chicago is among the worst. A person is shot in Chicago every 4 hours. A person is shot and killed every 17 hours.

President Obama came from Chicago. He proclaimed he loved that city. He had enormous power and the ability to send in the cavalry to clean this up. But he didn't. Why the f*ck did he not fix this in his 8 years as president?

We all know Chicago is a death trap. It's awful. Clearly it must be one of the worst in America, right?

Well, not exactly...

Depending on what stats you use, Chicago is ranked as between the 25th and 30th most violent city in America. That's right, there are at least 25 cities worse than Chicago.

I looked for stats for the year 2022 and couldn't find Chicago listed. Then in a footnote they listed a bunch of cities that had neglected to report their violent crime stats, and you guessed it. Chicago was one of them.

I'm not smart enough to have an answer. But our country is going to hell in a hand basket. Societal norms are in the toilet. Family values are gone. And this once great nation is spiraling out of control.

Rich

 

[namedpipes]

I understand something needs to be done with these mass shootings but how do they go about doing it without violating our rights and Constitution? Seems no one knows the answers and we know the lawmakers are just trying to keep their votes intact. Ever since Trump decided to run for president back in 2014-15, the country became more divided and right now it is definitely at its worse. The Dums and Repubs need to put party aside and start fixing everything in this country.

42

 

[Rockrivr1]

Life in general is a soft target. Your attitude, expecting The State to protect you, is why this country is slipping into totalitarianism.

Do you actually have kids?

Sure it is. Though the question is how to protect children in school. Israel went full bore on this and has eliminated schools as soft targets. If we want to eliminate schools as soft targets then we need to follow suit. If we don’t because parents don’t want schools to be a that way then we will continue to get what we are seeing today. What other option is there? More useless gun control?

 

[EMTDAD]

School shootings are an extremely low probability. When you think of even the number of school shootings over the past 20 years, it's a rare occurrence when you consider how many schools there are in this country. The odds of any single school being a target on any given day are extremely small. Putting paid details in every school doesn't pass the cost-benefit analysis. Making locked entry, and appointment only or buzzed in entry will prevent or delay the event.. but what's to stop some mental defective from showing up a school release time, when kids are vulnerable outside getting in cars, buses, or walking home.

Sure these events are awful but It's the media that sensationalizing these things. And there's no clear consensus of what the root of the problem, or the fix is. One side blames guns, the other mental health.

there's definitely a lot of causes and the answers are complicated and multifaceted. It definitely starts at home... 2 parents help, knowing your kids, being involved.. talking to them, discipline, instilling values... How many times did we hear from the parents.. "I had no idea..." well, when was the last time you actually had a real conversation with your teenage kids.. not a nod here and there while watching TV. Granted, this doesn't fix the 20something trans nutcase like the recent one..

 

[drgrant]

Sure it is. Though the question is how to protect children in school. Israel went full bore on this and has eliminated schools as soft targets. If we want to eliminate schools as soft targets then we need to follow suit.

So after that, the loonies will just then, magically give up on public shootings?

Eliminating just schools as targets = makes soft white suburban people happy......

I also don't think using Israel as a parallel makes much sense here because it's two different kinds of problems. Also Israel doesn't harden those schools because it's practical. It's because the memetic/terror value of a terrorist blowing up a bus is exponentially cheaper than killing schoolchildren. They don't actually care about the children they care mostly about lowering the potential value of the terrorism. Hardening schools makes terrorism work more poorly. It's easy to get public to dismiss some sporadic attack vs a bunch of kids dying at once.

 

[not new guy]

Sure it is. Though the question is how to protect children in school. Israel went full bore on this and has eliminated schools as soft targets. If we want to eliminate schools as soft targets then we need to follow suit. If we don’t because parents don’t want schools to be a that way then we will continue to get what we are seeing today. What other option is there? More useless gun control?

Israel is hardly the country we want to emulate for just about anything.

 

[Rockrivr1]

So after that, the loonies will just then, magically give up on public shootings?

Eliminating just schools as targets = makes soft white suburban people happy......

I also don't think using Israel as a parallel makes much sense here because it's two different kinds of problems. Also Israel doesn't harden those schools because it's practical. It's because the memetic/terror value of a terrorist blowing up a bus is exponentially cheaper than killing schoolchildren. They don't actually care about the children they care mostly about lowering the potential value of the terrorism. Hardening schools makes terrorism work more poorly. It's easy to get public to dismiss some sporadic attack vs a bunch of kids dying at once.

Mass shootings in the US have been predominantly at schools. We can either bury our heads in the sand with reasons we shouldn't do something about it or we actually do something about it. Sure percentage wise the probability is very low as shooting will happen at any particular school. But the end result of one goes beyond measure. We either come up with a realistic way to handle it or we get more useless gun control that will not stop it. What choice would you make if you had a kid in school. Doing nothing, as you seem to suggest above, isn't an option.

 

[paul73]

or we get more useless gun control that will not stop it

here - you said it. what do you think will happen? a common sense solution? c'mon, MAN! (c)

 

[not new guy]

Mass shootings in the US have been predominantly at schools. We can either bury our heads in the sand with reasons we shouldn't do something about it or we actually do something about it. Sure percentage wise the probability is very low as shooting will happen at any particular school. But the end result of one goes beyond measure. We either come up with a realistic way to handle it or we get more useless gun control that will not stop it. What choice would you make if you had a kid in school. Doing nothing, as you seem to suggest above, isn't an option.

"Just do something" "if it saves one life" is how we got in this mess.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Israel is hardly the country we want to emulate for just about anything.

Why? They've done what needed to be done to eliminate school shootings in a chaotic environment. There are things we can learn and should learn from their example.

 

[not new guy]

Why? They've done what needed to be done to eliminate school shootings in a chaotic environment. There are things we can learn and should learn from their example.

Because it's a f***ing totalitarian police state?

 

[Rockrivr1]

"Just do something" "if it saves one life" is how we got in this mess.

Nope, not just something. Something that has worked elsewhere. And no, I'm not talking about gun confiscation as I see that will most likely be your next point.

 

[paul73]

Because is a f***ing totalitarian police state?

have you ever been to tel-aviv?
so funny to hear stuff like this coming from somebody in the country that does not even let you drink a damn beer outside on a street. ridiculous...

 

[Rockrivr1]

here - you said it. what do you think will happen? a common sense solution? c'mon, MAN! (c)

Since I don't know I'll ask. In you former State, what did they do to protect schools?

 

[LakeTrout]

I understand something needs to be done with these mass shootings but how do they go about doing it without violating our rights and Constitution? Seems no one knows the answers and we know the lawmakers are just trying to keep their votes intact. Ever since Trump decided to run for president back in 2014-15, the country became more divided and right now it is definitely at its worse. The Dums and Repubs need to put party aside and start fixing everything in this country.

You don’t know the answer, yet you assume that “Dums and Repubs” are capable of knowing it and fixing the problem. It seems to me that the mentality of thinking we cannot fix the problem and we don’t know the solution, so therefore the government can fix it with more government, is irrational.

You said it: no one knows the answers but the politicians are just trying to keep their votes intact. So if that’s the case why would you delegate the authority to, or expect the politicians to be capable or invested in solving the problem in the first place.

Maybe instead it’s time we realize that those who claim to have the solution are behind the problem in the first place.

 

[whatluck]

Few things

Victimization culture enabling every mentally unstable person to be validated instead of ostracized

SSRIs and ADD drugs mess your brain up. They also usually interact badly with certain recreational drugs. People stop taking their meds so they can do cocaine/meth/other serotonin uptake effecting drugs. Coming off your meds makes you nuts. Add stimulant psychosis and you have the kind of person it takes 10 cops to get into a police car.

Clown world. Lashing out at innocents is disgusting but I see this as a pretty much natural reaction to clown world. They make this fake sould crushing world where you can't express yourself freely or be the person you want to be, you have to be a consumerist tax slave instead. We are so far removed from what I see as a natural state for humans it's surprising this doesn't happen more.

Covid broke everyone's back. We won't realize how bad it was until 10 years from now. 25% of small business gone. Record inflation. Record unemployment. Record repossessions. Average salary:Cost of living has never been poorer. The media and big tech actively trying to cancel white people. Importing millions of third worlders every year driving the cost up of everything while using DEI to make sure that only women and brown people get jobs.

For all we know for example the louisville bank shooter had a legit gripe with the bank. Not that I condone killing innocents, but banks are so inherently evil that I wouldn't be surprised if there was a justification for that action that we'll never learn about.

No access to mental health care. Try getting an appointment with a shrink. You may be having a very bad time in life and you find out even with insurance it can take months to get a referral, appointment, and finally talk to someone. Furthermore, we have a situation where getting help can impact your freedom. After covid, there's no more reason to talk to doctors.

But OP's idea that we need to 'do something' screams karenism. OP should mind his own f***ing business and stay out of public if he's so afraid of his own shadow.

 

[Rockrivr1]

You don’t know the answer, yet you assume that “Dums and Repubs” are capable of knowing it and fixing the problem. It seems to me that the mentality of thinking we cannot fix the problem and we don’t know the solution, so therefore the government can fix it with more government, is irrational.

You said it: no one knows the answers but the politicians are just trying to keep their votes intact. So if that’s the case why would you delegate the authority to, or expect the politicians to be capable or invested in solving the problem in the first place.

Maybe instead it’s time we realize that those who claim to have the solution are behind the problem in the first place.

I don't disagree with you, but at the same time this is the answer that keeps kicking this can down the street and nothing changes. If we allow it to be kicked the answer will inevitably be another AWB or a complete ban on Semi Autos. Not the "answer" we want. But until somebody take a serious, non gun ban, stab at trying to find answers then I think we all know where this ends up.

 

[paul73]

Since I don't know I'll ask. In you former State, what did they do to protect schools?

obviously, nothing, as they do not care about human lives there much - nor think that an every person deserves to live.
and ukrainian war shows well what that truly means to a whole world. so, not a good example.

 

[not new guy]

have you ever been in tel-aviv?
so funny to hear stuff like this coming from somebody in the country that does not even let you to drink a damn beer outside on a street. ridiculous...

My father flew routes there at the end of his career and spent quite a bit of time in tel-aviv as a result. You can't compare the US and Israel due to the fundamental differences of our respective realities. It's apples and oranges, and what's appropriate there isn't necessarily appropriate here. Drinking a beer on the sidewalk is a single inconsequential example.

 

[not new guy]

Nope, not just something. Something that has worked elsewhere. And no, I'm not talking about gun confiscation as I see that will most likely be your next point.

Elsewhere, as in the one country on the planet that's literally surrounded by millions of people who want its citizens dead?

 

[whatluck]

have you ever been to tel-aviv?
so funny to hear stuff like this coming from somebody in the country that does not even let you drink a damn beer outside on a street. ridiculous...

Israel spends more money per capita on surveilling its own citizens than any other country. They basically invented the technology.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Elsewhere, as in the one country on the planet that's literally surrounded by millions of people who want its citizens dead?

In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, were surrounded by people who want their citizens dead also.

 

[not new guy]

Israel spends more money per capita on surveilling its own citizens than any other country. They basically invented the technology.

And of course they export all that shit over here.

 

[not new guy]

In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, were surrounded by people who want their citizens dead also.

Huh? Who is surrounding us?

 

[M125X]

Bring back Trump.

 

[paul73]

Drinking a beer on the sidewalk is a single inconsequential example.

i disagree absolutely.
it is a part of the same puzzle and this thing is a one core element that truly separates country REAL level of oppression it desires to enforce. there are a lot of those 'little differences', and they all form up into a final picture. and it all is like a steam in the overheated tank that keeps building up.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Huh?

Basically there's a whole subset of citizens in the US who want to see their own citizens dead. They are just one event away from going off the rails and making that wish happen.

 

[not new guy]

i disagree absolutely.
it is a part of the same puzzle and this thing is a one core element that truly separates country REAL level of oppression it desires to enforce. there are a lot of those 'little differences', and they all form up into a final picture. and it all is like a steam in the overheated tank that keeps building up.

The point is that you can't compare physical security requirements in Israel to physical security requirements in the US.

 

[whatluck]

And of course they export all that shit over here.

They develop a lot of it with our help, and got caught selling it to the Chinese in 2013. The chinese used it to launch their social credit system.

 

[not new guy]

Basically there's a whole subset of citizens in the US who want to see their own citizens dead. They are just one event away from going off the rails and making that wish happen.

We're talking about attacks on schools. Assuming you're referring to the left, you really believe that the left wants to kill random kids for being... kids? Americans?