Selling to a dealer as part of swap, is this FTF?

[firtree]

I'm trying to make sure that I still have the
1 FTF transaction left this year that I think I have.
I have sold 3 firearms FTF using the FA-10. I'm
fine there. I also sold 1 pistol to a dealer as part of a
swap. Since the shop that I sold to has an FFL, does
that mean that the transaction was not one of the 4
FTF FA-10 transactions per year? I'm planning on
selling my Benelli M1 Super 90 and need to figure out
how to write the ad. (Swingsets are expensive! )

F

 

[Len-2A Training]

If you didn't fill out an FA-10 and put yourself down as "seller", then it does NOT count towards the four transactions/year. That is the simplest way to describe what is/isn't.

Usually selling to a dealer does not count (and no FA-10 is done) but your description is a bit fuzzy . . . e.g. if I worked at an FFL shop, met you there and we did a FTF with an FA-10, then it WOULD count towards your four sales/year. If I put it thru the FFL shop books (bound book) for in (from you) and out (to me), then YOU would not be party to an FA-10 and the answer would be "NO" it wouldn't count towards the four/year.

 

[firtree]

Thanks, I'll dig up the paperwork an confirm it, but
I did NOT fill out an FA-10 wioth me as the seller.
Sounds like FTF is a go!

 

[securityboy]

If you didn't fill out an FA-10 and put yourself down as "seller", then it does NOT count towards the four transactions/year. That is the simplest way to describe what is/isn't.

Usually selling to a dealer does not count (and no FA-10 is done) but your description is a bit fuzzy . . .

You have me confused here, I have sold guns TO ffl dealers on many occasions, and have done a FA10 everytime. And if you include those "to dealer" sales I have definately gone over the 4 per year limit, with no problems arrising...

Regardless of if it is required by regulation or not consider this, if you don't fill out an FA10, how will the state know you don't have the gun anymore. Don't know about you but I don't like the state knowing what guns I do have, so I certainly don't want them thinking I have guns I sold years ago...So I really wouldn't be that comfortable using an FFL who didn't do one when they bought my gun...

 

[Len-2A Training]

NO FA-10 is supposed to be done when you sell to an FFL (no matter what state that FFL is located in!)! FA-10s are supposed to be done only for "end user" transactions, not transactions to a dealer.

If you did as you said, you DID and you do more than 4 such transactions/year, you might be our "poster boy" to see if the state ever does an audit and pays you a visit! If the state does figure out what you are doing, they will just throw away the FA-10 at their end and not enter it in the system.

The state database is useless anyway and everyone involved knows it. 1/2 my guns are "off the books" since the state destroyed all the old records! I still have my copies of all the old tissue-paper FA-10s, but most gun owners are not "savers" and probably don't have them. The state NEVER removes your name from their database as the owner of the gun, so it might have 6 owners of the same gun to chase down. If at some point, the gun "exits MA" (sold to FFL who sells it out of state for instance) or you move out of state with it, the paper trail in MA ends! The database is a "feel good" mechanism that could be used for confiscations at worst or gives them some idea of transactions at best.

Best thing is to get a Bill of Sale from any dealer who buys your gun and keep that for when they knock on your door.

 

[securityboy]

Well if you/your dealers don't fill out an FA10 when you sell a gun to them, and you are comfortable with that, fine...Maybe the state doesn't want them, but I am pretty sure I have never heard of anyone get in trouble for filling out too much government paperwork, but there are plenty of folks who get in trouble for not filling out enough paperwork.

I guess my only question for you is this, why are there 15 blocks in the buyers license # box? When My LTC and MG licnense both only have 9 characters (I don't have an FID to look at, but since the sellers LTC/FID block only has 9 I'll guess it is 9 too) Funny isn't it that an FFL license # happens to be 15 characters, hmmm....

 

[Pilgrim]

I've sold/traded several to dealers and never filled out a FA10. I've never even had to supply paperwork that showed I owned them. I've offered it but was always told it wasn't necessary.

 

[FPrice]

Well if you/your dealers don't fill out an FA10 when you sell a gun to them, and you are comfortable with that, fine...

As I understand it, the dealer/FFL does not fill out an FA-10 when they take a gun in because they have to put the gun in their records (the bound book???). That action is the formal record of the transaction.

However I would not trade/sell a gun to a dealer without some sort of receipt showing the gun by name/model designation and serial number. I attach that to any other documentation I may have on that firearm (FA-10, bill of sale, etc.) so that I can prove independently why I don't have the firearm in my possession any more.