• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Secretary of the Navy orders Marines to make initial training coed

Admin

Admin

Staff Member
Administrator
Moderator
NES Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
43,064
Likes
42,035
Location
Monadnock area, NH
Feedback: 18 / 0 / 0
Making enlisted boot camp coed would likely require changes to infrastructure -- such as restrooms and living quarters -- and perhaps the size of the staff, the Marine official said.
Click to expand...
Coed platoon training at PI with the male Marine standards would equal less than 1% WM's graduating boot.
Fundamentally undermining America's military in the name of political correctness.
 
Right after the Marines lead the way ! Damn, I'm glad I'm old ! This stuff keeps getting stranger and stranger. My poor xucking Marine Corps ! Semper Fi, or is that gender offensive now too ? [angry2]
 
edmorseiii said:
The Navy is also taking "man" out of their rate titles.
Click to expand...

According to this article there may be a little leeway in some of the titles:

Mabus doesn't intend to require iconic titles like "infantryman," "rifleman" or "midshipman" to be changed, however, according to the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

"The idea is not to go in there and change the name when 'man' is incorporated as part of the term," the official said. "... But when the word 'man' appears as a separate word ... they want that name to be changed."

Examples of some of those titles in the Marine Corps include reconnaissance man, fire support man and field artillery sensor support man. In those cases, the official said it's possible the "man" could just be dropped from the names.
Click to expand...
 
Lignum Vitea said:
Coed platoon training at PI with the male Marine standards would equal less than 1% WM's graduating boot.
Fundamentally undermining America's military in the name of political correctness.
Click to expand...
Number of women who could meet male PT standards at Jump School: zero. Or yeah, maybe 1%.
 
The MOS name changes are a red herring. Everyone knows the Air Force has lead the way in the PC'fication of the Services yet they still use the term "airman". The real gotcha is the training standard changes. It doesn't matter whether a female Marine's title is "fire support man", "fire support person" or simply "fire supporter", if they can't do the job because they weren't properly trained and got into the position for PC reasons then riflemen will die.
 
Last edited:
I would be more than happy to send in an all female group of marines into combat. If they could handle it all by themselves, then great.
 
"Political correctness" is a very judgmental term. It implies that anyone who is not PC is wrong. Being told I'm wrong is nothing short of a microaggression and I deserve a safe space.

Absolute horse puckey.
 
Edited for clarity:

I'm not a Marine, and have no experience in combat arms. I'm a SAR guy.

The PC part of this, I can easily see the issue with. I'm clear there. But I'm curious to hear from any of the Marines here how integrating boot camp will cause problems? I ask not because I disagree with you, but because I have no first hand experience (only experience I've had with the USMC was a few week school at Camp Lejeune at a joint USCG/USN/USMC facility - drove the point home that they do things entirely different) myself and I'd be interested to hear a first hand perspective.
 
Last edited:
Mabus seems to really really reveling in this integration thing. The other services are doing similar things but Mabus seems to have the most "look at me" announcements. Maybe its just amplified by the jarheads who seem most vocal in opposition.
 
browncoat said:
Are they going to start holding women to the same PT standards in this initial training? If not - that's not very coed. They should make it more equal ;)
Click to expand...
In the Army the APRT has different standards by age. Paratroopers have to pass the same standards regardless of age. But women paratroopers, for example, didn't do actual pull-ups, they put their feet on a box in front of them and pulled up - sort of a reverse push-up.

Minimum # of push-ups for men was 40 (45 for paratroopers). Minimum for women was 16 and maximum was 38.

I imagine a woman who can't hump ammo like the guys is going to be real popular. And I don't know any that can.
 
Last edited:
garandman said:
In the Army the APRT has different standards by age. Paratroopers have to pass the same standards regardless of age. But women paratroopers, for example, didn't do actual pull-ups, they put their feet on a box in front of them and pulled up - sort of a reverse push-up.

Minimum # of push-ups for men was 40 (45 for paratroopers). Minimum for women was 16 and maximum was 38.

I imagine a woman who can't hump ammo like the guys is going to be real popular. And I don't know any that can.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I don't have a problem, theoretically, with the mix. If the standards are different though, then not every individual is pulling their own weight, and that's a problem. People need to have the physical strength to accomplish their jobs, that is just common sense.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...a83ea0-b145-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html

http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com...y-behind-female-officer-who-called-change-IOC

Somewhere there's a picture floating around of the two female Ranger School grads on one of the forced marches. They define the packing list and of your ruck is underweight, you are booted on the spot. The picture shows a sqaud-sized team, with all the men with rucksacks, the two women with none. No details on when/where but it's made the rounds in our circles.

There are persistent rumors that General Odiorno resigned as ACOS over this and that General Milley was presented with an order.
 
browncoat said:
Yeah. I don't have a problem, theoretically, with the mix. If the standards are different though, then not every individual is pulling their own weight, and that's a problem. People need to have the physical strength to accomplish their jobs, that is just common sense.
Click to expand...

Not sure if its still the case, but when I was in promotions were based off composite scores. One of which was your physical fitness test. Womens standards were lower for the same scores. So she
genlorettaereynolds.jpeg

passed over many Marines who were held to higher standards. Equality my ass.
 
No offense to anybody who has served or is still serving (those that know me know I've served) but the simple fact is the US hasn't won a war of any major consequence since 1945, so why does it really matter?

We are assuming that the latest attempt at gender neutrality will end in total and abject failure with needless lives lost and the shame and humiliation of defeat. There are compelling historical arguments, sociological studies and anecdotal experiences to suggest that this is precisely the case...but what if it doesn't?

Since we aren't really winning anything, we will soon have a regular Army that mirror images the size of the 1940 Army and a Navy of only 200 ships (down from 600 during the 1980's) does it really matter?

Remember the haunting words of Scrivner: what you tolerate you validate and what you validate you deserve...we have tolerated far too long, we get what we deserve, nothing more, nothing less...IMO
 

Similar threads

Army uniform for the army navy game. Go Army....beat Navy.
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
garandman
garandman
56 years ago the TET-68 Offensive kicked off
Replies
7
Views
365
M60
M60
Kids got PCS orders
Replies
5
Views
419
garandman
garandman
The Last Marauder has gone home. RIP
Replies
7
Views
396
greencobra
greencobra
Two birthdays to remember today...
Replies
1
Views
276
M60
M60
Back
Top Bottom