Why does Smith have a ten pound pull and the others don't?
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S & W MA approved trigger pull
- Thread starter News Shooter
- Start date
OK I get that
But why does everyone complain about S & W? I seldom hear complaints about Sigs, Rugers, etc
Thanks
But why does everyone complain about S & W? I seldom hear complaints about Sigs, Rugers, etc
Thanks
Maybe it is because of the Sigma? The S+W sigma has a TERRIBLE trigger
pull, its probably renowned at this point. (because of the cheap price of the
gun and tons of them being sold, etc... so almost everyone has had experience
with a smegma, er, sigma, at one point or another.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
) The thing is, there are a lot of guns with terrible DA triggers. I think ruger
autos have a terrible DA trigger, and the (stock) Beretta 92FS DA pull is way too long and heavy.
If you look hard enough you will find complaints about just about every
trigger out there... IMO the one with the least amount of whining associated
with it is the 1911... 1911s with sub 5 lb crisp triggers leave very little
to whine about.
-Mike
I guess I've just led
a sheltered existence![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
a sheltered existence
People complain more about S&W since their newest product and the newest totally new handgun on the market, the M&P, had to be neutered to MA standard including the trigger.
Stigmas do have an awful trigger pull as well, but I don't think that's really the reason. The thing is that M&Ps and Stigmas get compared to Glocks since they use the same system, while everyone expects a long heavy pull on traditional SA/DA hammered guns.
Stigmas do have an awful trigger pull as well, but I don't think that's really the reason. The thing is that M&Ps and Stigmas get compared to Glocks since they use the same system, while everyone expects a long heavy pull on traditional SA/DA hammered guns.
JuergenG
NES Member
Now I know, why they scratched their heads when I brought my 686 over
in '97 and asked for a 3" SA pull.
After I stated, that it's going back to the old world in a week, they did it though.
Great job, great folks and an excellent gun !
I can't answer wrt to Rugers but compared to a Sig there is a big difference (we're talking semis here). The Sig does have a +10lb FIRST pull... but after that the pull is about 5-6lbs which is reasonable. If your S&W's M&P has 10lbs pull EACH pull that is ridiculous. People would be disgusted with Glocks if that was the case as well... but we can't even get them here so it's a none issue.
Of course, we're talking different operating systems here. Sigs, save DAKs, are DA/SA which means double action pull first shot then single action each shot after that. Striker-fired guns like Glocks, Stigmas, M&Ps (and others, like the XD, i think) are the same pull for every shot, which is considered more desirable for proper training and LE use. As I understand it, that was one of the driving reasons behind the advent of the DAK system and why most SA/DA autos have a DAO variant available.
As it is, the conversion back to a normal 6.5 pound pull is about a five minute job if you know what you're doing (that's how long it took M&M to do mine today)
As it is, the conversion back to a normal 6.5 pound pull is about a five minute job if you know what you're doing (that's how long it took M&M to do mine today)
Sorry for my ignorance but is this 10lb trigger pull rule only applicable when you first purchase a gun? i.e. is it legal for the trigger pull to somehow be reduced AFTER you make the purchase? Or does it always have to remain at least 10lbs?
you can rework it after you bought it. For carry/SD guns have it done by a reputable smith or you may invite legal problems in the event you have to use it. (I don't know that there is any case history to back this statement up. I'll admit I'm regurgitating "info" I've read that seems to be believable. I'd be interested if anyone has any info one way or the other.)
Some argue that customizing a gun to the extreme with trigger work etc is inviting accusations of being a bloodthirsty killing maniac if you ever end up in court. I haven't seen any case law to support this. However, the AG regs including the 10 lb requirement only applies to the sale of handguns by Massachusetts FFL dealers (used or new, made after 98) and once you own it you may do whatever you want to it.
With the M&P, reducing the pull to the standard non-MA trigger should certainly be defensible in court.
With the M&P, reducing the pull to the standard non-MA trigger should certainly be defensible in court.
IANAL or an expert however... I'd imagine there is reasonable logic as to why LEO guns don't have 2 or 3 lbs pull. It's easier to get off a shot in competition but in a stressfull situation it's not much. I would argue in a life threatening situation a ND would be more of a possibility with 2lbs vs say 6.5lbs vs say 10lbs. I personally dont' and won't carry any gun with a modified trigger... maybe the action polished but nothing more and I'd have it done by the factory in that case.
Here some of my logic:
At the range with my DA/SA Sigs... it's a huge difference between the DA pull and the SA follow up... very obvious. However, with the same gun under the pressure of a IDPA match... that difference is sometimes not noticable.
Now... one could argue that once your finger is on the trigger you intend to shoot so a 2lb or a 10lb shouldn't matter. I wouldn't rest my future on this NOT looking bad in court... especially when I highly doubt it would give me any advantage in a SD situation.
Mass-diver
NES Member
For me, I can't shoot fast with a heavy trigger (10lbs) and I would not carry a pistol that I can not shoot fast follows up with. I'm sure people that are great shooters can group up nice with 12lbers, but I can't and stress for me makes me shoot heavy triggers worse.
4-5.5lbs seems about right me. If I problems with keeping my finger off the trigger, I would not be carrying.
While I have numerous cop family/friends, I could care less about what trigger weight works for them
I've never seen it, although the "ayoob files" certainly talk a lot about it...
but most of the incidents where trigger pull was an issue appeared to be cases
that were NOT cut and dry legitimate self defense- eg, they're cases where the
attorney was trying to palm off a given shooting as an accident instead of trying
to use the self defense route. (a lot of bad attorneys or ones stuck in bad situations
try to take the easy way out, as in some cases self defense may be harder to
prove. ) All the more reason to ascertain as best as you can (in that little
window of time) whether or not the gun is going to help.
Some will mention they will try to hose you in civil court over a light
trigger, but I think that is BS... I don't think it provides any more fuel
than whatever is already there. Anyone can "attempt" to sue anyone
else in civil court system for damages, even using the most assinine reason
or "plot device". If a scapegoat doesn't exist the dirtbag's family's
attorney will try to "invent" one to try to extract money out of your
insurance company or whatnot. Depriving the enemy's attorney
of one possible so called "reason" will not fully relieve one of dealing
with a**h***/evil lawyers on the other side in a civil suit. Ambulance
chasers tend to stop at nothing, often "inventing" things if they have to
as they go along to try to make their bologna stick to the wall.
-Mike
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