Rough bores.. what can one do?

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

I just won auction on a Vetterli that states that bore is rough.
What can one do to improve a bore other than replacing the barrel.

Also, I was checking out a MN.. says is counterbored.. can someone offer an explanation to what counterbored is..

regarding poor /rough bores, I understand this will greatly affect accuracy in a negative way, but can one still shoot through a poor/rough bore?

 

[SKS Ray]

I just won auction on a Vetterli that states that bore is rough.
What can one do to improve a bore other than replacing the barrel.

Also, I was checking out a MN.. says is counterbored.. can someone offer an explanation to what counterbored is..

regarding poor /rough bores, I understand this will greatly affect accuracy in a negative way, but can one still shoot through a poor/rough bore?

Counterbored is what many arsenals did to Mosins with poor or worn muzzle crowns. By enlarging the muzzle and drilling usually up to no more than an inch, its like a new crown on the muzle without cutting back the barrel.

As for a poor bore on a Vetterli, you'll have to handload for that rifle so you can probably use fire-lapping bullets. Now before you ask what fire lapping is and how it works, read this : http://www.neconos.com/details2.htm

 

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

Counterbored is what many arsenals did to Mosins with poor or worn muzzle crowns. By enlarging the muzzle and drilling usually up to no more than an inch, its like a new crown on the muzle without cutting back the barrel.

As for a poor bore on a Vetterli, you'll have to handload for that rifle so you can probably use fire-lapping bullets. Now before you ask what fire lapping is and how it works, read this : http://www.neconos.com/details2.htm

thanks.. I'll try this firelapping.. I think handloads would be better anyway due to lower pressure & I'd like to protect my investment. I scored this baby cheap .. Lucky me not many people found this auction because the seller spelled Vetterli wrong making winning cheap more possible.

Seems only issue is poor trigger working & poor bore, otherwise a great looker.. I can fix the trigger easy enough though.

This one's in .41 caliber.. I'm still not sure which model vetterli it is though,, will have to wait til it get's here.. Just won auction this a.m

Last vetterli I tried to pick up on auction was not as nice looking & also poor bore & it went over $300. I got this one for $160.

This morning I was going back & forth.. Turk or vetterli, turk or vetterli.. figured turks going nowhere & it can wait.

 

[jhrosier]

....
This one's in .41 caliber.. I'm still not sure which model vetterli it is though,, will have to wait til it get's here.....

You will not be shooting the .41 rimfire Vetterli very much. The ammo runs $5-$7 per round, last I heard. The ammo has not been produced for 50 or so years and what is out there is unlikely to fire anyway. There is a procedure to convert these to centerfire but it requires modifying the bolt and will detract from the collectors' value of the gun. The centerfire .41 cartridge is definately a wildcat and will require custom dies to make brass from .348 Winchester, which is also hard to find.

What you have is an interesting piece of history and a great wallhanger.

 

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

You will not be shooting the .41 rimfire Vetterli very much. The ammo runs $5-$7 per round, last I heard. The ammo has not been produced for 50 or so years and what is out there is unlikely to fire anyway. There is a procedure to convert these to centerfire but it requires modifying the bolt and will detract from the collectors' value of the gun. The centerfire .41 cartridge is definately a wildcat and will require custom dies to make brass from .348 Winchester, which is also hard to find.

What you have is an interesting piece of history and a great wallhanger.

Well, that's a bummer He did say in his listing that it's a wallhanger..

But I wanted it anyway.

 

[SKS Ray]

On a happier note I grabbed a straight stock Turk 1893 Mauser with a great bore and semi matching number's for $175 shipped priority off a gunboards add. Its a beautifull rifle complete with Turkish tie sling that I'll post pics of when its cleaned and ready.
The Vetterli is still a good find. You just need to hit the Swiss forums for some info on what to do with it. I'm PMing you a link.

 

[coastie]

You can do a conversion to the Vetterli to convert it to centerfire. Put "Vetterli centerfire conversion" into Google. I think it costs about $75 or so to do. YOu have to drill a hole in the center of the bolt face. Ammo is relatively easy to load. Brass is best formed from the 8mm Lebel casing. Available from Grafs. Lee makes the dies. Northwest? Bullets molds bullets for them and I believe there is a Lee mold available. Lees 2nd edition reloading manual has data. I think. Buffalo arms or Gads Custom cartridge probably sell loaded rounds or formed brass.

 

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

You can do a conversion to the Vetterli to convert it to centerfire. Put "Vetterli centerfire conversion" into Google. I think it costs about $75 or so to do. YOu have to drill a hole in the center of the bolt face. Ammo is relatively easy to load. Brass is best formed from the 8mm Lebel casing. Available from Grafs. Lee makes the dies. Northwest? Bullets molds bullets for them and I believe there is a Lee mold available. Lees 2nd edition reloading manual has data. I think. Buffalo arms or Gads Custom cartridge probably sell loaded rounds or formed brass.

Thanks. I was looking into that. Gads will do the process for $50 & yes, they sell the rounds, brass, etc. Won't be cheap to shoot, but I just have to do it.

The process is reversible, however, I think I'll buy a 2nd bolt as to keep the original unmodified.

Milsurps 4 Me, that link won't load. But I did check out swissrifles.com & lot's of great info there. I found that I have a Model 1869/71. I took a look at sellers photos & see it's made by W. von Steiger, Thun. Will have to wait til delivery to check out marks, date, etc..

 

[PatMcD]

regarding poor /rough bores, I understand this will greatly affect accuracy in a negative way, but can one still shoot through a poor/rough bore?

Just because a bore isn't pristine, doesn't mean the rifle won't shoot well. I've had Garands and '03's with horrible looking bores that shot just as well as ones that looked great. Not precision target rifles, mind you, but still halfways decent.
Run a brush down the bore to get any real roughness out of it and go shoot. You might be surprised.

 

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

Just because a bore isn't pristine, doesn't mean the rifle won't shoot well. I've had Garands and '03's with horrible looking bores that shot just as well as ones that looked great. Not precision target rifles, mind you, but still halfways decent.
Run a brush down the bore to get any real roughness out of it and go shoot. You might be surprised.

Yeah.. that's what I like to hear

 

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

On another note, just found an old box of remington .41 swiss rimfire shells.

Can rimfire be reloaded? Or would buying these be a waste of $$/time?

 

[coastie]

Rimfire cant be reloaded. You would be better off selling the box of ammo and putting the money into reloading gear. If it is a full box it is worth some money.

 

[WillyJP]

I wouldn't perform the following on anything remotely collectible however I have an Enfield No. 4 MkI that I bought years ago for $105.00. It had a two groove bore that was really dark and rough. I spent months shooting and cleaning to no avail. Finally attached a cleaning rod with a brass bristle brush to an electric drill, doused the bore liberally with Hoppes and went up and down the bore on the highest drill speed. Keep dousing the bore with Hoppes every couple seconds.

The bore is shiny bright now and still shoots well. Be careful not to let the sides of the cleaning rod touch the inside of the bore (use a one piece rod if you can). Also don't let the brush fall outside the muzzle or you risk nicking the crown.

Yes admittedly extreme and YMMV.

If you want to try something less invasive. then plug the chamber area and fill it up with Hoppes and leave it overnight. Don't use any of the bore cleaners that are primarily copper solvents or you risk damaging the bore more.

Good luck!!

 

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

Rimfire cant be reloaded. You would be better off selling the box of ammo and putting the money into reloading gear. If it is a full box it is worth some money.

It's a full box, but it's just the empty shells. I don't have it, just found one online.

I wouldn't perform the following on anything remotely collectible however I have an Enfield No. 4 MkI that I bought years ago for $105.00. It had a two groove bore that was really dark and rough. I spent months shooting and cleaning to no avail. Finally attached a cleaning rod with a brass bristle brush to an electric drill, doused the bore liberally with Hoppes and went up and down the bore on the highest drill speed. Keep dousing the bore with Hoppes every couple seconds.

The bore is shiny bright now and still shoots well. Be careful not to let the sides of the cleaning rod touch the inside of the bore (use a one piece rod if you can). Also don't let the brush fall outside the muzzle or you risk nicking the crown.

Yes admittedly extreme and YMMV.

If you want to try something less invasive. then plug the chamber area and fill it up with Hoppes and leave it overnight. Don't use any of the bore cleaners that are primarily copper solvents or you risk damaging the bore more.

Good luck!!

Hmm? Thanks for that tip. I got a junk bore gew 88 barrel I'm going to try that on.