Problems with reloads in an AR15

[tele_mark]

I was hoping someone could shed some light on a problem I'm having. First, I've been reloading for a bit over 3 years, but only for pistol. I've just started loading my first bottleneck rounds for my AR.

The rifle is new, and has had maybe 200 rounds through it, mostly Privi Partisan and 20 reloads. The problem manifested itself for the first time when I attempted to chamber a dummy round, which I'd resized in an RXBC X-die and seated a bullet in. After the round chambered, the bolt was locked up solid. I was only able to open the action with considerable force, so much so that I actually tweaked the ligaments in my index fingers. But, doing this again (stupid!) caused it to seize so bad that I was going to bring it to a gunsmith, but had the idea of putting some gun oil down the bore and letting it soak over night. The next day I was able to open the action with work gloves on. The thing is that right after, I tried a factory round, and it cycled fine.

I then cleaned the hell out of the gun and the chamber, and tried it again. The result was the reload cycled fine, but I could feel it just slightly biting the chamber. The next day I brought some of my reloads to the range and fired them all without incident.

Well yesterday, I brought 30 of my reloads to the range and maybe 15 or so rounds of some Privi I had left. The gun was freshly cleaned and lubed. Stupidly, I shot the 15 Privi's first, and then went to chamber my reloads to try them, and the bolt locked solid. I put some oil down the bore last night and the bolt opened with a little fight today, so at least I have that part down to a science.

Ok, fine, I obviously have a resizing issue, but for the life of me can't find anything out of spec with a pair of calipers. I remember early on when I started reloading, that .40 S&W reloads that would chamber fine in my gun wouldn't go into the case length gauge I bought, but they went in fine after I started running everything through a Lee FCD. So, I'm guessing that even though everything measures ok, I have a dimensional issue, and while new factory rounds are working, the debris they're leaving behind is tightening up the chamber so much my reloads are getting stuck.

I have a Lyman gauge on order, but I'm at a loss about what to do.I just looked at a 7.62x39 Lee FCD I have, and apparently, unlike the pistol versions, they won't post size the cases. So, does anyone know what's going on? Is my problem being caused by filthy commercial ammo? To tell the truth, the gun didn't look that bad before I started loading and had put a hundred and fifty of so rounds of the stuff through it without cleaning.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

If it is not an obvious misadjustment of your resizing die, your resizing die is not reducing the lower part of the case enough and its getting wedged in the chamber.

You may need a different die(small base die) to accomodate the tight chamber in your rifle.

A case guage will tell you if its your present die that is out of adjustment or if its out of spec diameter wise compared to your chamber.

Just a side question, You are using a full stroke on the press correct?

 

[tele_mark]

Yes, full stroke, and as far as I can tell I've set up the die per the instructions. The die set is an RCBS X-Die Small Base set. I just measured the round that was stuck and one out of the magazine. The max. spec is .378", and both of these measured .373".

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

If the shoulder of the case is not set back to the proper angle there will be a headspace problem causing the bolt lugs to be tight against the lugs on the barrel extension. How easily does the bolt lock up?

Try resetting the sizing die just a little bit lower than it is now, make a new dummy round and see how it chambers. If it works, then it was a shoulder angle problem.

They could also be getting stuck in the throat of the chamber. Are you trimming your brass to length?

When you get your case guage, it should show you immediately what your problem is.

 

[tele_mark]

Yeah, I'm trimming all the brass .020" under max length for use with the X-die. The bolt locks normally, it's then just about impossible to extract the cartridge using the charging handle. I had originally thought about shoulder angle, but using the eyeball method with a factory round, there's no noticeable difference, and I also eyeballed it against the full-sized case spec diagram in the Lee reloading book. The other thing I did was take the bolt out and just drop the factory and reload into the chamber. They both seemed to be seated in the same place to the naked eye.

I'll try setting the sizer a little lower tomorrow and see what kind of result I get. I can't wait for that gauge to come but it might be awhile -- Midway's been very, very screwed up lately.

 

[matt]

is there any scuffing/bright spots evident on the extracted case to show where it is rubbing? (try a dirty case)

 

[tele_mark]

No, at least nothing that pops out at me as really obvious as a scuff mark. I was examinging the ejected round last night for that very thing. I'll use your suggestion later tonight and try it with a dark case if I can find one in the batch.

 

[Gammon]

I had a similar problem. The resizing die wasn't taking the shoulder of the case down far enough. I would screw the resizing die in until it makes contact with the ram at the top of its stroke. This will insure that the case shoulder is set back where it belongs. The only way to diagnose this problem is with a gauge.

 

[tele_mark]

I'm going to try screwing the die right down to the shellholder tonight. I'll post my results.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

You can "smoke" a bright case using the soot from a candle or match flame. Doing this on the shoulder will tell you if its being contacted by the die.

 

[BillO]

This is weird, but I'm having the SAME problem. I have a Dillon 223 head space gage. The OAL is perfect, but the base of the shell shows a no-go sticking out .030 above the "high" mark on the gage.

 

[tele_mark]

Awesome! That means we can get it solved at the same time. It also gives me confidence that I'm not out int he Twilight Zone somewhere on this. What did the bases measure? As above, mine measured .373", and the published max is .378", so I dismissed this as the cause. I'll try some more tonight with the die set lower and report my results.

What is the gun you're experiencing this in? Mine is a DPMS M4 upper with a 5.56 chamber.

 

[Lugnut]

This is weird, but I'm having the SAME problem. I have a Dillon 223 head space gage. The OAL is perfect, but the base of the shell shows a no-go sticking out .030 above the "high" mark on the gage.

Interesting... I just checked a bunch of my .223 reloads. OAL is fine but the base of the case is a tad above the high mark.... certainly not .030" but maybe .005" above. My reloads haven't stuck but I'd imagine that .030" is a lot. I'd be concerned about that base of the case being unsupported. I think I'll make damn sure the die touches the plate next batch... I'm pretty certain I did it last time too.

Either way it seems like the shoulder isn't getting pushed down enough like Gammon said.

Ironically I have a Dillon gauge as well!

 

[tele_mark]

Ok, just got back from the basement. I'm quite convinced Gammon was right and embarrassed to say it was probably caused by operator error. I re-read th die instructions, and they were still confusing to me. i think what happened is I somehow mis-interpreted the instructions as saying to screw the die in until it contacts the shell holder, then back it out 1/8-1/4 turn, instead of the opposite. Like I said -- my first bottleneck reloads.

Anyway, I chambered a few of the reloads. Not surprisingly, with the amount of oil I soaked the bore in to get the stuck round out, most came out ok, but I got one that required lots of effort to eject. I took this one, pulled the bullet and took out the powder, and re-sized it with the die set properly, then set the same bullet back. It chambered and ejected like butter.

I'm very happy that I learned something, and solved this (I'm 90% sure). I appreciate the experienced reloaders giving me the tips. The only down side is I have to spend the weekend pulling 200+ rounds, resizing the cases and reloading them all. Oh well, I'll be a little less dumber the next go round.

 

[Lugnut]

Ok, just got back from the basement. I'm quite convinced Gammon was right and embarrassed to say it was probably caused by operator error. I re-read th die instructions, and they were still confusing to me. i think what happened is I somehow mis-interpreted the instructions as saying to screw the die in until it contacts the shell holder, then back it out 1/8-1/4 turn, instead of the opposite. Like I said -- my first bottleneck reloads.

So you bottomed it out and then turned it another 1/8-1/4 turn tighter?

EDIT: I just checked my Hornady .223 sizing die directions. It says adjust die till it contacts the shell plate. Lock it in there.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Glad you found the problem and learned from it. A case guage is a "must have" tool for reloading bottle neck cartridges, it will save you alot of time and headaches and tells you things that calipers cannot.

Be thankful it was only 200 cartridges.

When I first started reloading, I had to pull 4000 .308s because of a possible powder problem. I went through 3 inertial pullers, but got it done and every one of those reloads fired perfectly.

 

[tele_mark]

Yeah, on the single stage. On the progressive, I'm just adusting it to contact the shellplate pretty snugly.

I'm still getting strange data though. I just found another reload that was very difficult to cycle out, and pulled the bullet. This time, I re-sized it on the progressive instead of the single stage. It still was very difficult to extract. So, I pulled it again and re-sized it on the single stage. It came out of the action pretty smooth. So strangely, I'm getting different results between the two presses. Then I did another one on the progressive and it cycled like butter. Weird.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

+1
Thanks for keeping this thread up. I have a similar set up and will be loading my first .223 rounds in a couple of week. I appreciate this heads up and will be careful to avoid the same thing!

 

[tele_mark]

Glad you found the problem and learned from it. A case guage is a "must have" tool for reloading bottle neck cartridges, it will save you alot of time and headaches and tells you things that calipers cannot.

Be thankful it was only 200 cartridges.

When I first started reloading, I had to pull 4000 .308s because of a possible powder problem. I went through 3 inertial pullers, but got it done and every one of those reloads fired perfectly.

I'm lucky that I bought a collet puller for another "project", so all I had to do was get a .22 collket for it. Makes the chore a breeze, and you don't lose any powder.

 

[RKG]

The "standard" advice for non-carbide sizers is to put a shell holder in the ram, run the ram up to full stroke (which, with most presses, is just beyond TDC), insert the die and screw it down to a feather touch, and then lock it.

What this advice does not take into account is the amount of spring that any given press might have. You'll have just about zero spring with an "O"-type single stage press (like the Rockchucker), more with a "C"-type single stage, and even more with most progressives.

If, in order to make rounds that will gravity drop in and gravity drop out of your rifle's chamber, you have to screw the die further than feather touch, I'd consider taking a close look at the press to see if it has excessive spring, and, if so, how that might be reduced.

 

[Scrivener]

i think what happened is I somehow mis-interpreted the instructions as saying to screw the die in until it contacts the shell holder, then back it out 1/8-1/4 turn, instead of the opposite.

Backing OFF 1/8 of a turn from bottoming out sounds correct; tightening further after bottoming out sounds like a problem in the making. Are you sure you stated that correctly?

 

[tele_mark]

Here's what it says:

Screw the X-Sizer die into the press until the die touches the shell holder when the shell holder is brought up to the top of the press stroke. To remove any play in the press linkage system, lower the shell holder and adjust the die 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn downward so the press cams over center. Make every effort possible to duplicate the same amount of cam force each time the die is used.