pop-up range

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Alchemist

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Alright, I'm here because I need some Army/Marine help. Sorry Air Force and Navy, I just know you don't have to qualify for the M16.

So, here's the deal. This drill, I take my M16 to the zero range and qualified in the first six bullets. I was the only one. Then I proceeded to skip ahead while there was a line for everything else and make my way to the M9 range which my company was running. Yeah, surprise surprise... a line in the Army. Anyway, I qualify expert. I'm feeling pretty good. I decided to walk back to the M16 pop-up range. It's about 2 miles away. The time I get back, we have to stand in line. Oh yeah, I get tired. I look down the range at the 200-300 meters and I can't see anything. The black silhouettes are blending into the dark brown back-drop. I'm not the only one, over half my unit didn't qualify and they were weak at it. Now, I couldn't qualify.

I need help. I've recommended to my CO that the targets get painted or the range control do something about that backdrop. When I was in Ft. Sill, OK qualifying, there was a desert sand backdrop. That, I liked. I qualified on it first try.

I need advice. I only started firing the M-16 about a year and a half ago. One, I know that a lot of guys who have done this before remember the order of pop-ups. Does anybody have that order?

My other question is do you have any suggestions shy of beating up the range control guys and painting the targets?
 
If the CoC knows something is messed up, they can either get it fixed or use an alternate method of qualifying. There is Alt. Course B and Alt. Course C that units can qualify on. Do a google search on FM 3-22.9. It has everything you are looking for.

Course B is on a KD range.
Course C is at 25M on a target with multiple scaled silhouette targets.

Where were you qualifying?

B
 
Forget the 300 meter targets... Use those rounds on the 200 and 250's that you miss. If I got expert, then you can too. But try to be some of the first in line next time. The added day light really helps. Don't forget that after you fire a round, open your other eye to scan for the next target.(this was what put me ahead).
 
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did anyone else have problems? I just peeked thru 3-22.9 and didnt see anything about not seeing the targets, besides it being your problem, Failure to identify targets. Did they pop the targets up before you shot? Theyre supposed to, thats when you tell them you cant see the target.
We shot thru a thunder storm in Mississippi that scared the crap out of me, but we didnt get pulled. I couldnt see 50m thru my CCO, and shot a 29. Normally shoot 38-40. No alilbis for the rain.
Read the manual before you see your PSG, so you know what your talking about, and remember, the pop up at Devens is always dicked up.
 
In the real world your enemy will blend into the background.
Not green on brown or black on white. And the weather will not be in your favor.Work on the difficult target acqusition and the easier ones will be as they are. Train your eyes, Range time seems to be in order. Having a range partner (spotter) might help getting you zeroed.

We are having a Carbine Course next weekend if your interested. WWW.Tridentconcepts.Com

Good luck and thanks for Service.
 
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NWanner said:
I played taxi cab for the 181 last weekend there; alpha, bravo, charlie, and delta where qualifying there IIRC.
Click to expand...

who the hell is left? most , if not all of charlie is here, or up the street, along with delta and alpha. I ran into the guys from cropper sue, my old PL is the S3 there now for Rayoc, or something. there cant be much more than a squad left from the 181
 
centermass181 said:
who the hell is left? most , if not all of charlie is here, or up the street, along with delta and alpha. I ran into the guys from cropper sue, my old PL is the S3 there now for Rayoc, or something. there cant be much more than a squad left from the 181
Click to expand...

Probably Alan's company is left, but they just returned last year. Also turned over to A Co.101. I believe.[laugh] Oh and an MP company up here.[laugh] Some of the guys from Alan's unit just left with the other engineer unit from your end of the state. I guess we should tell them to shut the lights off on their way out.[laugh]
Sounds like you're getting around. If you ever go up to Sousi (sp) you'll have to look up Alan's kurdish buddy.[laugh]
 
Not sure, I'm with the 126th BSB Echo company. We run support for them but for the most part I'm left in the dark about everything and they frago ALOT, kinda urks me cuz I like specific SPs, pickup, and drop off points. I might be with the 1166th Trans off of Plantation in Worcester next month. Cool thing about being a Cadet is there's always a spot in every unit for you so you can kinda pick and choose where you wanna go.
 
MrsWildweasel said:
the other engineer unit from your end of the state. I guess we should tell them to shut the lights off on their way out.[laugh]
]
Click to expand...

they do our route clearance on irish, i need to tell them to turn thier lights off in the cougars, they seriousy look like like fenway rolliing towards you. makes it tough when i run blackout.
 
centermass181 said:
they do our route clearance on irish, i need to tell them to turn thier lights off in the cougars, they seriousy look like like fenway rolliing towards you. makes it tough when i run blackout.
Click to expand...

Some of those guys are from Alan's unit. Alan thought about going with them, since they would actually be doing engineer duties and not MP duties.[laugh]
 
Usually the closer are full of holes that it takes a good hit in the shoulder areas (sides) to take them down. Also, range control probably has not maintained the apparatus' very well and/or they are showing their age. And cutting the grass helps, too.
You should get to know the sequence of targets as they rise and fall. It is the same every time.
Watch the winsd downrange and aim just above the head of the 250 and a foot above the 300 and you'll hit them.
Keeping a straight line from muzzle to firing foot (side of the rifle) and your elbows directly below the rifle are as key as breathing. Get a rhythm down like ' breathe, breathe I see it-hold-squeeze-bang-breathe-look-breathe....repeat as necessary.
 
Rpriestlyjr said:
.... aim just above the head of the 250 and a foot above the 300 and you'll hit them.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. The goal of zeroing at 25M is to get you on target at 300M without a hold over If you reference FM3-22.9 you will see that with a 25M zero, the max ordinate for the M16A4 is around 175M and is slightly less than 6 inches. If you have correctly zeroed your rifle at 25m you should aim slightly low on all the targets except the 300m target. If you aim a above the head at 250M or a foot above the head at 300M it is a guaranteed miss.

The doctrine in the manual is fine just the way it is written.

aimingpointsas0.gif
 
I usually aim alot lower on the 50/100 meter targets and a little higher on the 150, then again I'm a 63B going 88A so I'll leave the marksmanship up to the infantry boys [laugh]
 
If my memory serves me right, the M16A2 being zeroed at the 25m range would give a hit at 200m (or 250). But I'll just go with what worked for me.
I guess that the referenced FM has nothing to do with the A2, but that sounds like a Marine manual to me.
 
Rpriestlyjr said:
If my memory serves me right, the M16A2 being zeroed at the 25m range would give a hit at 200m (or 250). But I'll just go with what worked for me.
I guess that the referenced FM has nothing to do with the A2, but that sounds like a Marine manual to me.
Click to expand...

The current FM is 3-23.9 or something like that. It has both the M16A1, M16A2, M16A4 and M4 series in it.

Find a digital version of FM 23-9, and it should have both the M16A1 and M16A2, as well as the M4 series in it.
 
I guess that I must stand corrected a little bit. It's been some time since I've had to deal with 23-9.
But what the hell makes the A4 so special?
Is it one of the Brazilian makes that are in service now?
I'm not going to quote FM's except for 57-220, but I do recall something about the 25m zero for the 200/250 m targets. Maybe it was on the zero target itself. I forget.
 
Alchemist said:
Alright, I'm here because I need some Army/Marine help. Sorry Air Force and Navy, I just know you don't have to qualify for the M16.

So, here's the deal. This drill, I take my M16 to the zero range and qualified in the first six bullets. I was the only one. Then I proceeded to skip ahead while there was a line for everything else and make my way to the M9 range which my company was running. Yeah, surprise surprise... a line in the Army. Anyway, I qualify expert. I'm feeling pretty good. I decided to walk back to the M16 pop-up range. It's about 2 miles away. The time I get back, we have to stand in line. Oh yeah, I get tired. I look down the range at the 200-300 meters and I can't see anything. The black silhouettes are blending into the dark brown back-drop. I'm not the only one, over half my unit didn't qualify and they were weak at it. Now, I couldn't qualify.

I need help. I've recommended to my CO that the targets get painted or the range control do something about that backdrop. When I was in Ft. Sill, OK qualifying, there was a desert sand backdrop. That, I liked. I qualified on it first try.

I need advice. I only started firing the M-16 about a year and a half ago. One, I know that a lot of guys who have done this before remember the order of pop-ups. Does anybody have that order?

My other question is do you have any suggestions shy of beating up the range control guys and painting the targets?
Click to expand...

I'm assuming this is at Devens? Is so, the range is hosed. It's always been hosed. It will probably always be hosed. I've never shot anything less than expert until I started shooting there. It sucks, but you just need to keep shooting until you find a good lane. That's assuming they let you.

Most of the targets (and I mean most, not some) don't register hits. Many of the targets can't BE hit (watch your round hit the I Beam support of the target in front when you fire).

I forget what range I was on last month, but after testing every lane, we only had 3 that were good to qualify on, and those weren't ideal. Unfortunately, it's not going to get better. Your best bet is to beg your COC to go paper.
 

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