Please help with question on IDPA equipment requirements!

[Snu66y]

Hi All,

I want to begin shooting IDPA matches in the stock service revolver class. I am buying a Ruger GP-100, and among other things, the gunsmith wants to do the following:

The finish ream and hone chamber is not a performance advantage, i.e. like porting etc, but merely allows the revolver to be loaded and unloaded easily and without the possibility of service accumulated crud to jam cartridges in the cylinder. Same goes for throating the barrel. It merely reduces the incidence of spitting lead and ensures good function. there is a slight accuracy enhancement when throating a barrel, however I throat to the same angle as Ruger and only if it needs it.​

Is this legal for IDPA? I want to make sure I don't make a big investment and end up with a revolver I can't use!!

Thanks for your input,
Snu66y

 

[eisenhow]

As far as I know it's all perfectly legal.

I tried to quote the rule book and there is nothing there to support allowing it (stupid inclusive list). I'm hoping that these new IDPA "tiger teams" address the idiocy of the current (2005) rulebook.

 

[Craig Buckland]

All the modifications you've listed are perfectly consistent with the Rule book.

All you really want (not necessarily "need") for IDPA is a smoother and lighter action than stock and chamfered chambers.

Timing has a lot more to do with lead spitting than modifying the forcing cone. If the problem is that the bullet is not entering the barrel true, modifiying the forcing cone is not the solution.

The out-of-the box precision of any GP100 I've seen is more than adequate for IDPA distances.

Why a GP100?

Craig

 

[jar]

What rule allows reaming the chamber? The permitted modifications in SSR are:
1. Sights to another conventional notch and post type (see
“sights” in glossary for further information).
26
2. Action work to enhance trigger pull as long as safety is
maintained (smoothing the trigger face, removing the hammer
spur, use of over travel stop, conversion to DA only and
addition of ball detent are considered action work and are
permitted).
3. Grips to another style or material that is similar to factory
configuration (no weighted grips).
4. Chamfer the rear of the chambers.
5. Shortening of factory barrels.
6. Custom finishes.
7. Re-barreling to another factory offering for that model.

None of those say ream chambers.

 

[M1911]

I don't see a need for those modifications. As Craig mentioned, it only needs an action job and chamfered cylinders.

Most of the folks shooting SSR shoot a K or L-frame S&W.

 

[Snu66y]

All the modifications you've listed are perfectly consistent with the Rule book.

All you really want (not necessarily "need") for IDPA is a smoother and lighter action than stock and chamfered chambers.

Timing has a lot more to do with lead spitting than modifying the forcing cone. If the problem is that the bullet is not entering the barrel true, modifiying the forcing cone is not the solution.

The out-of-the box precision of any GP100 I've seen is more than adequate for IDPA distances.

Why a GP100?

Craig

Hi Craig,

The trigger job is part of the package I bought, and I agree that it is most important. I'm getting a 9# DA trigger and about 2.5# SA.

I wanted a GP-100 because I carry the SP-101 and I wanted to have the same cylinder release lock on both.

I know there are a lot of entertaining debates about S&W 686 versus Ruger GP-100; they are both fine guns!

 

[Craig Buckland]

Ahh - that makes sense. I have a GP-100 with a pretty good action. They work fine, it just takes a little more effort. You might also consider a trigger stop. A simple roll pin inserted into the back of the trigger bow and cut to length works great. The Ruger GP-100 action is pretty long. I have one on mine and it helped.

You're right jar - it's not listed but I assume he is reaming to factory specs. If he's not, he'll have a host of other unpleasant issues. Some early Rugers had tight chambers.

Craig

 

[Snu66y]

Hi All. I think my 'smith's assertion that he "throats to the same angle as Ruger and only if it needs it" means he is reaming to factory specs. And actually, I just put in a call to IDPA in Georgia and they did confirm that all the mods are legal. I agree with you, jar, the rule book is pretty confusing. But the folks at IDPA were very accommodating of my questions.

Craig, if you ever have the time and inclination to post a picture of that trigger stop, I'd be very interested in seeing it!

 

[Craig Buckland]

Georgia? I think you mean Arkansas.

Can't seem to post images, but find me at a local match and I'll be glad to show you - same thing on my S&Ws.

Mike, I admire your faith.

 

[Snu66y]

Oops, yes, I meant Arkansas. Thanks for the correction!

 

[TY43215]

What rule allows reaming the chamber? .

The reason it is not listed as an allowed modification is it is NOT a modification. It is making sure the chambers are set at SAMI specs. Craig has a 1955 target that was reamed (as long as you didn't change the cylinder).

Any 625 or 25 I ever worked on was reamed to specs for accuracy and reliability. It is a very good practice.

Also, some smiths call Chamfering "reaming". It is also an acceptable term.

Taylor throating is also and correctly cutting an 11 degree forcing cone aid in accuracy and the transition from cylinder to bore. Again, another common revolver tune measure.

Sounds like the OP has an experienced Ruger pistol smith that knows the necessary steps. I was never able to get the damn hitch out of the action. It really required welding up the sears and re=profiling and I never invested in the gear.

 

[M1911]

Gary, thanks for the schooling on revolver smithing.

 

[Admin]

Fall on your knees & thank the baby Jesus

Do you have to shit up every thread you post in? Post in a different forum if you want to continue to be an a**h***.

 

[eisenhow]

The reason it is not listed as an allowed modification is it is NOT a modification. It is making sure the chambers are set at SAMI specs. Craig has a 1955 target that was reamed (as long as you didn't change the cylinder).

Any 625 or 25 I ever worked on was reamed to specs for accuracy and reliability. It is a very good practice.

Also, some smiths call Chamfering "reaming". It is also an acceptable term.

Taylor throating is also and correctly cutting an 11 degree forcing cone aid in accuracy and the transition from cylinder to bore. Again, another common revolver tune measure.

Sounds like the OP has an experienced Ruger pistol smith that knows the necessary steps. I was never able to get the damn hitch out of the action. It really required welding up the sears and re=profiling and I never invested in the gear.

First I think all of this work would be for SSR/ESR. It sounds like HQ agreed. I'm just trying to point out how crappy the current IDPA rule book is. As an IDPA/SO and USPSA/RO when someone asks a question I try to give a definitive answer and reference the rule book

So by your own logic would Taylor throating be allowed? To me that sounds like like a modification rather than making it factory spec. If you look at the SSP/ESP/CDP sections that type of "modification" would be allowed.

6. Internal accuracy may be worked to include replacement of
barrel with one of factory configuration and original caliber

However, no such clause appears in the SSR/ESR sections.

 

[Craig Buckland]

The reason it is not listed as an allowed modification is it is NOT a modification. It is making sure the chambers are set at SAMI specs. Craig has a 1955 target that was reamed (as long as you didn't change the cylinder).

Gary,

That long, big, black, beautiful, shiny 1955 Model Target now has a properly chamfered USPSA-full blown gamer Ti cylinder.

Sometimes I get procedurals at IDPA matches just for thinking about it.

Mike,

Any lack of clarity, reason or logic in the IDPA rulebook aside, I'll bet you there aren't more than 2 working IDPA SOs on either side of the Mississippi who could identify a Taylor-throated revolver if you bounced it off his timer. I've seen quite a few hammer block removed revolvers pass safety inspections even when the SO was looking directly at the evidence.

If you want a real revolver sport, stick with ICORE.

Craig

 

[Lugnut]

How does one accurately measure that the chambers meet spec? My 625 seems to load pretty well... but I have heard about some being to tight.

Craig- you going to the Friends of Revo match this Saturday? I promise not to give you a PE unless you do more than just think about it.

 

[Craig Buckland]

Dave,

Thanks for the offer but I'm helping set up Sunday's ICORE Regional on Saturday.

Besides, I'm getting pretty tired of being compelled to run around with an empty gun after cover mysteriously drops out of the sky when I fire my sixth shot. I kinda like the idea of putting more bullets in it quickly.

Craig

 

[TheRoland]

Besides, I'm getting pretty tired of being compelled to run around with an empty gun after cover mysteriously drops out of the sky when I fire my sixth shot. I kinda like the idea of putting more bullets in it quickly.

Craig

I'm holding a fool's hope that reloading rules are the things that get killed in the next rules revision.

 

[Lugnut]

Dave,

Thanks for the offer but I'm helping set up Sunday's ICORE Regional on Saturday.

Besides, I'm getting pretty tired of being compelled to run around with an empty gun after cover mysteriously drops out of the sky when I fire my sixth shot. I kinda like the idea of putting more bullets in it quickly.

Craig

Understand. It's the fine company that keeps us going... plus coming up with stages that make it easier to reload using cover.

 

[jar]

I'm holding a fool's hope that reloading rules are the things that get killed in the next rules revision.

There's a 263 post thread about how the round dumping rule sucks on the IDPA forum, so maybe there's a chance.

 

[M1911]

There's a 263 post thread about how the round dumping rule sucks on the IDPA forum, so maybe there's a chance.

That thread is a winner.

 

[TY43215]

How does one accurately measure that the chambers meet spec? My 625 seems to load pretty well... but I have heard about some being to tight.

The earlier 625s had troubles but I have also seen newer models with a tight cylinder. The only sure way is to own a Clymer reamer and run it through each chamber. Chances are you will find 4 or 5 that are fine and one that is tight. That is the reason you may have one that sticks consistently.

Craig's answer about no one knowing is spot on. and IDPA's take on it as far as I am concerned should be "don't ask, don't tell"

To help the OP, a Ruger usually can benefit from the 11 degree forcing cone. IIRC, S&W uses the 11 degree from the factory (or at least they used to)

ICORE is the way of the Wheel. I just wish my hands allowed me to continue to play

 

[Craig Buckland]

There's a 263 post thread about how the round dumping rule sucks on the IDPA forum, so maybe there's a chance.

There's been a 200+ post on the same subject every 24 months since 1998. Though significantly shorter than 17 years, it's much like the locust cycle without the benefit to birds.

 

[jar]

There's been a 200+ post on the same subject every 24 months since 1998. Though significantly shorter than 17 years, it's much like the locust cycle without the benefit to birds.

But now there are tiger teams.

(No offense to Kitty and the other guy, but I'll believe HQ will listen to them when I see it.)