Pistol-->SBR-->Pistol Legality

[stacarter]

Hi guys, I apologize if this has been answered in detail. I've searcher here and I have seen this question about AR's but my situation is different. I have a Brugger & Thomet TP9 that came into the US as a pistol. Then Zero Hour "made" it an SBR and added the folding stock. I bought it from them on a Form 4. I am selling it in the classifieds as an SBR.

I have an interested party that would like me to remove the stock and sell them the "pistol". What I have read is that if it was a pistol, removing the stock makes it a pistol again. There is no requirement to notify the NFA to "deregister" it, though I'd likely do that to CMA with the NFA folks. I'd then ship the stock to his dealer as a separate transaction and the dealer can deal with resubmitting paperwork to make it an SBR if that is what the guy wants to do.

Am I reading that right? My understanding is that Pistol to SBR to Pistol is ok, but Rifle to Pistol is the big no no. Once a rifle, always a rifle or SBR, a rifle can't be a pistol under any circumstances.

Any thoughts on this from this group?

I ask again because the prevailing questions I can find related to this are based on AR15 questions, which is an entirely different animal because it is so easy to put a 16 inch barrel on those. This will essentially always be a 4 to 5 inch barreled pistol with a grip mounted magazine.

Thanks folks

Cheers

STAC

 

[soam]

Hi guys, I apologize if this has been answered in detail. I've searcher here and I have seen this question about AR's but my situation is different. I have a Brugger & Thomet TP9 that came into the US as a pistol. Then Zero Hour "made" it an SBR and added the folding stock. I bought it from them on a Form 4. I am selling it in the classifieds as an SBR.

I have an interested party that would like me to remove the stock and sell them the "pistol". What I have read is that if it was a pistol, removing the stock makes it a pistol again. There is no requirement to notify the NFA to "deregister" it, though I'd likely do that to CMA with the NFA folks. I'd then ship the stock to his dealer as a separate transaction and the dealer can deal with resubmitting paperwork to make it an SBR if that is what the guy wants to do.

Am I reading that right? My understanding is that Pistol to SBR to Pistol is ok, but Rifle to Pistol is the big no no. Once a rifle, always a rifle or SBR, a rifle can't be a pistol under any circumstances.

Any thoughts on this from this group?

I ask again because the prevailing questions I can find related to this are based on AR15 questions, which is an entirely different animal because it is so easy to put a 16 inch barrel on those. This will essentially always be a 4 to 5 inch barreled pistol with a grip mounted magazine.

Thanks folks

Cheers

STAC

Barrel length has no bearing (in Federal law) on whether the gun is a rifle or not, only the presence/absence of a stock.

As for your question about pistol -> rifle (SBR) -> pistol being okay, the answer is yes (OR MAYBE NOT, SEE EDIT BELOW).

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a
barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration
not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).

PDF here:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/r...red-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download

EDIT: Actually, the ruling I quoted only applies if the rifle stage is not an NFA firearm ("16 inches or more in length").

Your question is complicated by the fact that your "second step" is an SBR, and so isn't covered by the ruling in all of its specific details.

However, it is likely that returning your SBR to a pistol configuration is fine and legal, and removes it from the purview of the NFA. The only way to know for sure would be to find a similar ruling that does cover your specific scenario, or to write a letter to the NFA branch's tech division asking the question.

 

[stacarter]

OK, that is what I was seeing to suggest to me that removing the stock makes it ok. I can remove the stock and send it to his dealer for a transfer and separately send a letter to the ATF that my specific registered SBR has been removed from that configuration by me and is no longer in an SBR configuration in my possession. The purchaser can deal with their FFL on reconfiguring it as an SBR if that is what they want. If the dealer has the pistol and the stock in his possession, he is ok assuming he has the right FFL right?

My comments on barrel length were merely to restate that it isn't a typical AR pistol type situation.

Thank you for your reply

Cheers

STAC

 

[soam]

OK, that is what I was seeing to suggest to me that removing the stock makes it ok. I can remove the stock and send it to his dealer for a transfer and separately send a letter to the ATF that my specific registered SBR has been removed from that configuration by me and is no longer in an SBR configuration in my possession. The purchaser can deal with their FFL on reconfiguring it as an SBR if that is what they want. If the dealer has the pistol and the stock in his possession, he is ok assuming he has the right FFL right?

My comments on barrel length were merely to restate that it isn't a typical AR pistol type situation.

Thank you for your reply

Cheers

STAC

Yeah, if the FFL is an 07/02 SOT then he can have all the short barrels and stocks he wants.

 

[Nick Leduc]

What is the reasoning to do all of this? Is this guy looking to be able to avoid the long wait time on the SBR transfer? And if he intends to make it an SBR after the item is shipped and in his FFL hands, would he have to pay a new $200 tax to make it a new SBR? There seems like there is some hidden "intent" behind the transfer.

I know you are the seller, and none of that really is your worry. Im just curious.

 

[stacarter]

The buyer wants to be able to take immediate possession of the firearm. Otherwise I ship it to his FFL and he waits for the Form 4 to clear. This way he can play with it and then give it up to the FFL to wait. My understanding is that the FFL has to keep possession of it in its complete SBR form while the paperwork is in play. At least that is how they play it here in WA. I did the same thing when I had Zero Hour Form 1 an AR lower for me. I figure if I send the stock to a dealer and they give it to the guy, it is on them. I'll ship it with a signature method so I can prove I sent it to a "responsible" party. From there it is up to the dealer and the buyer in my mind how they want to handle whether the stock and the now non-NFA pistol ever wind up in the same physical space without being registered with the ATF.

 

[JDL]

Send the ATF a memo stating that you are removing the SER#XXXX from SBR status and turning it back to a no stock XXX barrel firearm as long as the barrel is less then 16" and overall is less then 26", this is the ATF definition of a pistol. Ship the firearm to the dealer FFL as a pistol enclose your memo to the ATF. The FFL will have to bound book the firearm as a pistol. Your buyer can then do what ever he decides to do with the FFL dealer. This is no longer your concern you have removed the SBR as an SBR with the ATF and have shipped and sold a pistol. Do not involve yourself with what the buyer decides to do after the sale. I know the memo to the ATF is not mandatory, however it will protect you if any questions come up regarding this firearm in the future.

 

[stacarter]

Thanks JDL. That is exactly how we did it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk