Maine reciprocity. A little help please...

[zombie]

Back this summer, Maine passed LD 148. Here is the text of this bill.


An Act To Provide Fairness in Concealed Weapon Reciprocity Agreements

Be it enacted by the People of the State of Maine as follows:
Sec. 1. 25 MRSA §2001-A, sub-§2, ¶F, as enacted by PL 2003, c. 452, Pt. N, §2 and affected by Pt. X, §2, is repealed and the following enacted in its place:

F. A firearm carried by a person:
(1) To whom a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued by another state if that state grants reciprocity to a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by this State; or

(2) From a state that does not require a permit to carry a concealed firearm.


summary

Current law allows the Chief of the State Police to enter into reciprocity agreements with 2 other states regarding the recognition of permits to carry a concealed firearm.

This bill allows a person from another state to carry a concealed firearm in Maine if that person has a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by a state that grants reciprocity to concealed firearm permits issued by Maine or that person's state does not require a permit to carry a concealed firearm.




Resolve, Directing the Department of Public Safety and the Attorney General To Review Other States' Concealed Weapon Reciprocity Agreements and Actively Seek Reciprocity Where Appropriate

Sec. 1. Commissioner of Public Safety and the Attorney General to review other states' concealed weapon laws and seek concealed weapon reciprocity agreements where appropriate. Resolved: That the Commissioner of Public Safety shall work in cooperation with the Attorney General to conduct a comprehensive review of other states’ concealed weapon laws for the purpose of identifying and seeking other states with whom this State may enter into concealed weapon reciprocity agreements; and be it further

Sec. 2. Report. Resolved: That the Commissioner of Public Safety shall report findings regarding the review of other states’ concealed weapon laws, including identification of the states that meet this State’s reciprocity standards, and progress regarding entering into concealed weapon reciprocity agreements with those other states. The Commissioner of Public Safety shall report to the Joint Standing Committee on Criminal Justice and Public Safety no later than January 1, 2008. Upon receipt of the report, the Joint Standing Committee on Criminal Justice and Public Safety may submit implementing legislation, if necessary, to the Second Regular Session of the 123rd Legislature.




So does this mean that I can carry in Maine now? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[drgrant]

So does this mean that I can carry in Maine now? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

(stuck foot in mouth earlier, sorry about that.)

In your case, because you're from VT, this is an interesting case... but reciprocity in the
truest sense wouldn't work, because VT doesn't have a permit at all.

-Mike

 

[zombie]

Edited to add a pretty important part....

 

[KMaurer]

Another argument in favor of Alaska's alternative to Vermont's no-licenses-needed system. Alaska doesn't require people to have any license to purchase, possess or carry firearms (openly or concealed), but also issues optional permits to residents who might want to avail themselves of this sort of situation. One wonders whether Maine will recognize Alaska's permits under this law.

Ken

 

[Pilgrim]

F. A firearm carried by a person:
(1) To whom a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued by another state if that state grants reciprocity to a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by this State; or

(2) From a state that does not require a permit to carry a concealed firearm.

This bill allows a person from another state to carry a concealed firearm in Maine if that person has a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by a state that grants reciprocity to concealed firearm permits issued by Maine or that person's state does not require a permit to carry a concealed firearm.

sounds like it to me.

seems plain to me...am I missing something here?

 

[zombie]

I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing something.

Just seems too good to be true.

 

[coastie]

This does not allow you to carry in ME now. This bill authorizes the state to EXPLORE the options for reciprocity. It does not grant reciprocity. If you are going to be in ME frequently get a non resident permit. They are easy to get.

 

[plumber]

Maine hasn't enacted any reciprocity YET. The permit process is very easy, and we Mainers don't understand restrictions.

 

[jamz]

Man, if ME would reciprocate with RI or even MA, how happy I would be.










While I'm wishing for things, I'd also like a pony.

 

[KMaurer]

Don't to as I did in my previous response; read the actual text of the law completely. For a Vermont resident, the question of reciprocity is completely irrelevant.

(1) To whom a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued by another state if that state grants reciprocity to a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by this State; or

(2) From a state that does not require a permit to carry a concealed firearm.

A Vermont resident does not require a permit to carry in VT. As a result, it's only section (2) that's applicable, which doesn't mention or depend on reciprocity in any way.

Ken

 

[plumber]

Man, if ME would reciprocate with RI or even MA, how happy I would be.










While I'm wishing for things, I'd also like a pony.

Massachusetts reciprocate
Rhode Island reciprocate
I don't think Rhode Island could figure out how to recriprocate with THEMSELVES.

 

[ptmmatssc]

I have the report in hand that was given to committee . I called my rep regarding the progress of LD148 . Essentially , Maine will only recognize permits from other states that have an agreement with Maine , and they have chosen states to work agreements out with based on whether or not their laws are as strict as ours .

The states they have an eye on are : Alabama , Delaware , Kansas, Louisiana, North Dakota,Pennsylvania, South Dakota , and Wyoming .

What keeps us from approaching more states is the "good morals" clause of our requirements . Another state could have equal provisions for getting a permit , but without the moral clause , or something similar , Maine will reject them .

 

[drgrant]

While I'm wishing for things, I'd also like a pony.

Except that, someone buying and keeping a pony is a lot more likely than MA ever having reciprocity with -anyone-

-Mike

 

[zombie]

I have the report in hand that was given to committee . I called my rep regarding the progress of LD148 . Essentially , Maine will only recognize permits from other states that have an agreement with Maine , and they have chosen states to work agreements out with based on whether or not their laws are as strict as ours .

The states they have an eye on are : Alabama , Delaware , Kansas, Louisiana, North Dakota,Pennsylvania, South Dakota , and Wyoming .

What keeps us from approaching more states is the "good morals" clause of our requirements . Another state could have equal provisions for getting a permit , but without the moral clause , or something similar , Maine will reject them .

Thanks for the update on this!


The big question for me is Vermont....

 

[ptmmatssc]

Thanks for the update on this!


The big question for me is Vermont....

Vermont is only mentioned as a state that recognizes Maine's permit . Because their is no "permit" in Vermont , Maine will not recognize their right to carry here .

Essentially , Maine will only recognize permits from states that they get an agreement with . A lot of states will recognize other state permits , but have no statute allowing for reciprocity . Therefore , regardless if the state recognizes Maine's , Maine will not/cannot recognize theirs without the agreement.

 

[ptmmatssc]

Man, if ME would reciprocate with RI or even MA, how happy I would be.










While I'm wishing for things, I'd also like a pony.

Mass is a no go " No authority to enter reciprocity agreements"
RI " Rhode Island does not grant reciprocity"

 

[zombie]

Vermont is only mentioned as a state that recognizes Maine's permit . Because their is no "permit" in Vermont , Maine will not recognize their right to carry here .

Essentially , Maine will only recognize permits from states that they get an agreement with . A lot of states will recognize other state permits , but have no statute allowing for reciprocity . Therefore , regardless if the state recognizes Maine's , Maine will not/cannot recognize theirs without the agreement.

What do you think the chances of Maine recognizing other states non resident permits?

I can probably guess the answer to this one.....

 

[ptmmatssc]

What do you think the chances of Maine recognizing other states non resident permits?

I can probably guess the answer to this one.....

Actually , that point never gets addressed . I don't think that ever crossed their minds . My guess (YMMV) is that if it is a state permit , from a state Maine has reciprocity with, then you should be good to go .

The study based what states Maine would work at having agreements, on how strict the other states laws were . Basically , if the state has strict laws for their own residents , the laws will be as strict ,or stricter , for non residents. Therefore Maine's requirements are met .

 

[plumber]

Mass is a no go " No authority to enter reciprocity agreements"
RI " Rhode Island does not grant reciprocity"

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/news/pr1.asp?prid=3417

Rhode Island actually passed a bill to honor Mass LTC's, with the caveat that Massachusetts will honor RI permits. This one passed easily because everyone knows Massachusetts will NEVER honor another state's permit, they would lose $100 per year!

 

[drgrant]

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/news/pr1.asp?prid=3417

Rhode Island actually passed a bill to honor Mass LTC's, with the caveat that Massachusetts will honor RI permits. This one passed easily because everyone knows Massachusetts will NEVER honor another state's permit, they would lose $100 per year!

While that is true im sure our inefficiency in MA, it probably -costs- more than $100 to issue a permit in man-time.

The "state" would probably save a little money by such a
measure but it might cause a hack somewhere to lose their job, so no go.


-Mike

 

[ASG]

The bill as passed:

"Resolve, Directing the Department of Public Safety and the Attorney General To Review Other States' Concealed Weapon Reciprocity Agreements and Actively Seek Reciprocity Where Appropriate

Sec. 1. Commissioner of Public Safety and the Attorney General to review other states' concealed weapon laws and seek concealed weapon reciprocity agreements where appropriate. Resolved: That the Commissioner of Public Safety shall work in cooperation with the Attorney General to conduct a comprehensive review of other states’ concealed weapon laws for the purpose of identifying and seeking other states with whom this State may enter into concealed weapon reciprocity agreements; and be it further

Sec. 2. Report. Resolved: That the Commissioner of Public Safety shall report findings regarding the review of other states’ concealed weapon laws, including identification of the states that meet this State’s reciprocity standards, and progress regarding entering into concealed weapon reciprocity agreements with those other states. The Commissioner of Public Safety shall report to the Joint Standing Committee on Criminal Justice and Public Safety no later than January 1, 2008. Upon receipt of the report, the Joint Standing Committee on Criminal Justice and Public Safety may submit implementing legislation, if necessary, to the Second Regular Session of the 123rd Legislature."

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawM...me.asp?ID=280022474&LD=148&Type=1&SessionID=7

It was amended before passing to remove the part that would have allowed VT residents to conceal carry in Maine without a permit.

Of course, open carry is still legal in Maine without any license/permit...

 

[noshow]

I'm Surprised:

I have the report in hand that was given to committee . I called my rep regarding the progress of LD148 . Essentially , Maine will only recognize permits from other states that have an agreement with Maine , and they have chosen states to work agreements out with based on whether or not their laws are as strict as ours .

The states they have an eye on are : Alabama , Delaware , Kansas, Louisiana, North Dakota,Pennsylvania, South Dakota , and Wyoming .

What keeps us from approaching more states is the "good morals" clause of our requirements . Another state could have equal provisions for getting a permit , but without the moral clause , or something similar , Maine will reject them .

I would have expected they would also have an eye on both Florida and New Hampshire. Is there any chance they will also be considered?

 

[Cross-X]

I recommend that you consult with a firearms lawyer who is a member of the Maine bar. Short money now can keep you out of trouble later. Don't depend on armchair Internet opinions, no matter how well intentioned.

 

[zombie]

I recommend that you consult with a firearms lawyer who is a member of the Maine bar. Short money now can keep you out of trouble later. Don't depend on armchair Internet opinions, no matter how well intentioned.

Of course, I could just get a Maine non-resident permit. I suspect it would be cheaper.....

 

[Jeff_JMB]

The way I understand it, a reciprocity agreement with Florida is a no-go because Maine doesn't mandate training or an FBI check.

 

[ptmmatssc]

The way I understand it, a reciprocity agreement with Florida is a no-go because Maine doesn't mandate training or an FBI check.

Maine won't enter into an agreement with Florida because ( this is the exact wording from the report) :

Florida -No discretion for anything short of a conviction , and thus does not meet Maine's good moral character clause.

I'm going to see if I can get a PDF of the report so it can be posted for those that want to read it . Or , if possible , at least scan it to a word doc .

 

[Jeff_JMB]

That's a perfect example of why I always disagree with people who say Maine is a "shall issue" state. It makes no sense to call Maine "shall issue" when every local CLEO has the latitude to issue or deny based on his own opinion of who's "morally" worthy.

Remember "Media Mike" Chitwood's criteria? No human being other than a sworn officer on duty was moral enough to own a gun.

 

[truejabber]

The state's web page for this is: http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawM...e.asp?ID=280028389&LD=2267&Type=1&SessionID=7

Apparently they looked at it yesterday and are looking at it again today. It appears to be sailing through.

The thing that bothers me is that it simply gives the SP the authority to seek reciprocity with other states with similar licensing requirements. I would rather it compelled the SP to seek reciprocity. As it is they don't have to seek it with anyone even if this passes.