LTC Renewal in Westford

[Broc]

I have an unrestricted LTC issued by Westford. Before I had one of those non-resident FID (or whatever they were called) because I wasn't a citizen. Anyway, I went to renew last week, the licensing officer is a great person, I was early so we spoke for a while and then she calls me today, the chief wants to see my safety class certificate. I told her they already saw it the first time, she said she knew, but this is some new BS the chief is pulling on people and it is at his discretion.

She said the paperwork went out, but the chief will want to see it before they give me the new license, or something like that.

So...I guess I have two options:

1. Tell the Chief to F-off and probably get a restricted LTC or get nothing - is that possible?

2. Take a class AGAIN...waste time and money because I am not sure I can find a piece of paper from a class I took over 6 years ago.

Any ideas?

Does anyone offer a shorter class for BS like this? - pay, shoot, in and out in 2 hours?

 

[RHJJ]

Good luck, that sucks.

 

[Zeo]

Contact the place you took the course, most will give you a copy, for the price of a postage stamp.

 

[rocket500]

There is a couple hour AM class offered through the Roudenbush Community Center and held at Westford Sportsmens Club if you have to re-take.

 

[Broc]

Contact the place you took the course, most will give you a copy, for the price of a postage stamp.

I will try that, although I doubt Hunters Trading Post will have the records from that long ago.

 

[LoginName]

Think you have it bad, Watertown requires safety re-certification on every renewal, and you'll still get a
restricted ltc. [sad2]

Unfortunately, nothing can be done about it (this particular practice has been upheld by the court).

If anything, at least find a course/instructor that doesn't require any range time (although I seem to recall a
thread from not that long ago where some ass of a CLEO would only accept safety certification that had a
shooting portion which isn't required by law).

 

[mclina]

Any chance the place you took the original class keeps records and you can get a dupe?

What a PITA. I got out of Westford last summer, three days before my LTC expired. I never had to renew.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

I hereby apply for a Class A License to Carry Firearms (LTC/A), issued as “Restrictions: NONE” (formerly “All Lawful Purposes”) as set forth in M.G.L. c. 140, § 131(d). I do so for
the following reasons:
1. I wish to own guns which require a Class A LTC for home and personal defense.
2. I am considering joining a rod & gun club to have a place to shoot, and these clubs
require a license to join, use the range, and to compete at events.
4. Because it is the class and reason for issuance recommended by the Massachusetts
Chiefs of Police and is the most commonly issued class of license for that reason*;
5. Because one is either qualified to own handguns, or one is not; and
6. Because there is no liability to a licensing authority who issues an LTC to a qualified applicant, regardless of the class and reason for issuance;
I therefore apply for an unrestricted Class A License to Carry Firearms (LTC/A); formerly issued as for “All Lawful Purposes.”

 

[Broc]

I hereby apply for a Class A License to Carry Firearms (LTC/A), issued as “Restrictions: NONE” (formerly “All Lawful Purposes”) as set forth in M.G.L. c. 140, § 131(d). I do so for
the following reasons:
1. I wish to own guns which require a Class A LTC for home and personal defense.
2. I am considering joining a rod & gun club to have a place to shoot, and these clubs
require a license to join, use the range, and to compete at events.
4. Because it is the class and reason for issuance recommended by the Massachusetts
Chiefs of Police and is the most commonly issued class of license for that reason*;
5. Because one is either qualified to own handguns, or one is not; and
6. Because there is no liability to a licensing authority who issues an LTC to a qualified applicant, regardless of the class and reason for issuance;
I therefore apply for an unrestricted Class A License to Carry Firearms (LTC/A); formerly issued as for “All Lawful Purposes.”

1. I already have an LTC unrestricted issued by the same chief.
2. I'm already a member of two clubs.
3. I already applied and went to the PD last week. The licensing officer just called me today to let me know.
4. The "proof of safety class" was not a requirement when I went to the PD last week. The licensing officer never asked for it because it is a RENEWAL. But the Chief must have sand in his vag. She even told me the paperwork has been sent to the state, but the chief is requesting the certificate before he signs off on it / they give me my new license.

I have the renewal receipt with me.

This is not one of those things that they told me ahead and I decided to play stupid.

 

[FrankNA]

It really sucks that an LTC renewal has to be this obstructive. You've already had your colonoscopy when you first applied for your LTC so why do they have to fux with you again? I hate this state!!!!!

 

[RHJJ]

It really sucks that an LTC renewal has to be this obstructive. You've already had your colonoscopy when you first applied for your LTC so why do they have to fux with you again? I hate this state!!!!!

Yes it is really sad.

 

[Woody1911a1]

thing is , is that when you first apply , they ask for your certificate and you give it to them . then you no longer have it , because you f'ing gave it to them !!!

the class you probably took 6 years ago no longer exists . basic pistol .

correct me if i'm wrong but home firearm safety is the cert you need to take now . 4 hrs ish .

sorry but it's been a few years since i taught and haven't kept up .

maybe someone else will chime in .

 

[Broc]

I didn't know that. What I took several years was basic pistol. It included a class portion with a test and shooting at the range.

I might have given them a copy, I can't remember it was so long ago.

 

[Woody1911a1]

I didn't know that. What I took several years was basic pistol. It included a class portion with a test and shooting at the range.

yup , well the nra changed things last year . long story . they made a money grab and screwed instructors . their new course never made it out of the starting gate and never got approved by mass . now they've changed it again .


thing is is that there's only the home firearm safety ( hope i've got that right ) that's approved by mass .

 

[Squire]

This is straight up psychological warfare. If they beat you down enough, you will comply.

The legislature gave the CLEO the suitability power specifically for this purpose: to show gun owners that Government grants them their Rights, at their whim and leisure.

They are beating gun owners down so that they won't have the balls to stand up to the Tyrants when it really matters.

 

[Broc]

yup , well the nra changed things last year . long story . they made a money grab and screwed instructors . their new course never made it out of the starting gate and never got approved by mass . now they've changed it again .


thing is is that there's only the home firearm safety ( hope i've got that right ) that's approved by mass .

Yeah, I just saw that at a place in Westford. I really don't want to give that POS town any money. ... but I'm afraid that even if I somehow find my safety class certificate, the CLEO will say it is no good because that class doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Woody1911a1]

Yeah, I just saw that at a place in Westford. I really don't want to give that POS town any money. ... but I'm afraid that even if I somehow find my safety class certificate, the CLEO will say it is no good because that class doesn't exist anymore.

no , if you find your old cert . it's still good to go . but if you didn't , a new cert is only 4 hrs ish .

 

[07Mustang]

I'm an instructor and keep a copy of every student's records of when, where and what I taught them. Every instructor I know does the same. Contact your instructor. I know the horse is out of the barn but I tell every student, "make a copy and give the copy to the PD and keep the original."
PM me if you need more help.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Do you want to fight and bitch or get your LTC? My first few LTC's came from Chief Connell. He was tough prior to many on here being born.

Does it suck? Sure it does.
Is it right? Of course not.
Point is how much spare time and money do you have to make it right to the CLEO to make it go away?
Even a brand new course card is only a $100.00 or so. A lawyer will eat that with his coffee waiting for the bagel to be toasted by the no-speak at DD on Littleton Road.

Then of course we have the typical NES response of "just move".

 

[bostonasphalt2]

thing is , is that when you first apply , they ask for your certificate and you give it to them . then you no longer have it , because you f'ing gave it to them !!!

the class you probably took 6 years ago no longer exists . basic pistol .

correct me if i'm wrong but home firearm safety is the cert you need to take now . 4 hrs ish .

sorry but it's been a few years since i taught and haven't kept up .

maybe someone else will chime in .

Never hand over the original! Give them a copy of it. Take the original if you want to prove your copy isnt some 2002 inkjet printer bullshit, but NEVER give away the original. Are people really that dense?!

 

[JAD]

yup , well the nra changed things last year . long story . they made a money grab and screwed instructors . their new course never made it out of the starting gate and never got approved by mass . now they've changed it again .


thing is is that there's only the home firearm safety ( hope i've got that right ) that's approved by mass .

After I contacted them, the relevant officer at MSP indicated that the blended Basic Pistol Shooting course WAS acceptable as LTC-002/ NRA Basic Pistol.

Home Firearm Safety is one option, perhaps the most common, but there are quite a few others offered as well.

 

[JAD]

Never hand over the original! Give them a copy of it. Take the original if you want to prove your copy isnt some 2002 inkjet printer bullshit, but NEVER give away the original. Are people really that dense?!

I provide my students with original and duplicate certificates to help make sure that they still have proof of training.

 

[42!]

Do you want to fight and bitch or get your LTC? My first few LTC's came from Chief Connell. He was tough prior to many on here being born.

Does it suck? Sure it does.
Is it right? Of course not.
Point is how much spare time and money do you have to make it right to the CLEO to make it go away?
Even a brand new course card is only a $100.00 or so. A lawyer will eat that with his coffee waiting for the bagel to be toasted by the no-speak at DD on Littleton Road.

Then of course we have the typical NES response of "just move".

That's right, no matter what added unlawful requirement they insist on you should comply. (sarc)

Suitability makes the chief into a god, and everyone who has just gone along because it's easier are his disciples.

 

[Asaltweapon]

That's right, no matter what added unlawful requirement they insist on you should comply. (sarc)

Suitability makes the chief into a god, and everyone who has just gone along because it's easier are his disciples.

You're preaching to the choir.

Sure the OP could spend $5K easy on getting a lawyer and wait years for the process to go thru the courts or just take another class and be done with it. Are you willing to help him out with the expenses or will you just keep writing "but our rights".

 

[milktree]

thing is , is that when you first apply , they ask for your certificate and you give it to them . then you no longer have it , because you f'ing gave it to them !!!

I didn't. I gave them a copy. (which is what everyone should do) That's all they need, because they're going to look up in the state's database to verify you took it anyway.

Which makes this requirement *even more* offensive.

 

[42!]

You're preaching to the choir.

Sure the OP could spend $5K easy on getting a lawyer and wait years for the process to go thru the courts or just take another class and be done with it. Are you willing to help him out with the expenses or will you just keep writing "but our rights".

The suitability clause and how the courts enforce it is what gives the CoP/LO unrestricted power over those who wish to own a firearm. A lot of it is because people willingly comply.

But I'm not just talking. I wright about Suitability because I've run out of money fighting it. Right now I'm working on changing the law. A simple addition of 15 words and remover of 21 words, but it would protect applicants from speculation by the CoP/LO and add a 5 year limit to any "incident" that the denial is based on (in line with the misdemeanor assault limit). But with a Dem rep in a highly dem area I'm not making much progress.

So I am not a "but our rights" guy screaming 2a and no laws. It might be nice but it's not going to happen, certainly not in MA. But remove the claw that holds back the people who comply and maybe they too will speak out, knowing they are no longer subject to the whim of the crown.. oops, I mean CoP.

But you are right, it is a lot simpler for the OP to just take the class. And I have to say it would be tempting to me as well. And because I held an LTC prior to the class requirement I'm exempt from the requirement.

 

[exojam]

I may try and contact other members of the Westford Sportsman Club and let them know what the chief if up to. Maybe the club can "modify" the terms of how the cops use the club ranges if this is how he wants to play.

 

[Len-2A Training]

thing is , is that when you first apply , they ask for your certificate and you give it to them . then you no longer have it , because you f'ing gave it to them !!!

the class you probably took 6 years ago no longer exists . basic pistol .

correct me if i'm wrong but home firearm safety is the cert you need to take now . 4 hrs ish .

sorry but it's been a few years since i taught and haven't kept up .

maybe someone else will chime in .

I'm an instructor and keep a copy of every student's records of when, where and what I taught them. Every instructor I know does the same. Contact your instructor. I know the horse is out of the barn but I tell every student, "make a copy and give the copy to the PD and keep the original."
PM me if you need more help.

NEVER EVER give the original to anyone. Always provide only copies. It also pays to scan your docs into a file folder so you can always recreate it from your computer if the need arises.

Yes, all good instructors keep copies of our documents and who we taught when. I can actually look up that info on the NRA Instructors website to verify date and info. Given that, creating a duplicate BFS Cert isn't difficult at all.

Yes, it is an obstructionist move to require a copy on every renewal, a new course, live fire only courses, etc. but MGL gives the chiefs free rein to do this and the courts have universally backed them up.

 

[Coreytrx]

You should be able to get a copy. I took a basic hunter safety course 20 years ago. A couple years ago when I was getting everything ready to apply for my LTC I couldn't find the card they gave me saying I passed the course. I think I contacted the state and they sent me a new one in about a week. I think the state has a record of you taking that class and should be able to send you a duplicate cert.

 

[Broc]

Oh...I forgot about the hunter safety class. I took that one as well and I believe I saw the card a week ago when I was organizing my papers.