IDPA safety rules vs Jarret?

[Will Brink]

IDPA SOs and others, been looking to improve my time on tactical reloads, etc. Jarret recommends reloads with gun up close to the face. Practicing this, it is much faster for me. However, noting the angle of the gun when doing that, would that be a "muzzle" call in IDPA? You will note the gun is almost parallel to the body at times. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNjcubxfQA&NR=1

PS, his shooting on the move vid has to be seen to be believed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2zYvMpTeqI&feature=related

 

[GTOShootr]

However, noting the angle of the gun when doing that, would that be a "muzzle" call in IDPA? You will note the gun is almost parallel to the body at times.

There are no muzzle problems there.

 

[Will Brink]

There are no muzzle problems there.

OK, having never had the gun going parallel to the body while reloading, I had to wonder. That will help greatly.

 

[Supermoto]

OK, having never had the gun going parallel to the body while reloading, I had to wonder. That will help greatly.

The gun isn't at parallel to the body while loading it more like 45*, you turn the gun only enough to meet the angle that the mag is coming in at.

 

[Hamar]

You want to see the mag well when you make your reload.

 

[P-14]

You want to see the mag well when you make your reload.

You want to be able to reload without looking at the pistol or your hands, as if you are reloading in a pitch black room. It should be smooth, automatic and you should be focusing on the next target to engage not looking at your hands. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Will Brink]

You want to be able to reload without looking at the pistol or your hands, as if you are reloading in a pitch black room. It should be smooth, automatic and you should be focusing on the next target to engage not looking at your hands. Practice, practice, practice.

If it's not a safety issue, I will start practicing the method Jarret shows. I tend to re load much lower, and it's no doubt slower, and I find my thumb gets to the release faster when the gun is up higher like that too.

 

[Supermoto]

You want to be able to reload without looking at the pistol or your hands, as if you are reloading in a pitch black room. It should be smooth, automatic and you should be focusing on the next target to engage not looking at your hands. Practice, practice, practice.

I would disagree, you want to look at the magwell, staring at the target does you no good, you immediate problem is an empty gun. Look at the magwell will help you get a smooth clean reload when everything is not perfect, like reloading on the move.

 

[KMaurer]

I would disagree, you want to look at the magwell, staring at the target does you no good, you immediate problem is an empty gun. Look at the magwell will help you get a smooth clean reload when everything is not perfect, like reloading on the move.

Playing IPSC or IDPA your problem may be an empty gun, but in a defensive situation, your problem remains the assailant. It's him, not a temporarily unloaded gun that will kill you. You shouldn't need to look at the magazine to determine which way the cartridges are pointed or at the gun to know exactly where the magwell is or to direct the hand holding the magazine to the hand holding the gun.

Ken

 

[Negotiator]

Both points of view here have merit. In the dark, one hand will always find the other so providing you can reach the new mag, you should not have a problem with reloading and keeping an eye on the tactical situation. The higher reload position a la TJ helps with reacquiring the target faster. It's a question of what works most reliably for you...just be safe!!

 

[Supermoto]

Playing IPSC or IDPA your problem may be an empty gun, but in a defensive situation, your problem remains the assailant. It's him, not a temporarily unloaded gun that will kill you. You shouldn't need to look at the magazine to determine which way the cartridges are pointed or at the gun to know exactly where the magwell is or to direct the hand holding the magazine to the hand holding the gun.

Ken

I believe Todd J teachs LEO and the military to look at the magwell in Defensive situations, as the priority is to get the gun running. what good is looking directly at the attacker? it will cost you extra time in getting the gun up and running, you stll can see the threat, you still can move. get the reload done.

 

[Will Brink]

I believe Todd J teachs LEO and the military to look at the magwell in Defensive situations, as the priority is to get the gun running. what good is looking directly at the attacker? it will cost you extra time in getting the gun up and running, you stll can see the threat, you still can move. get the reload done.

Good discussion here! Glad I got it started. Good info all around.

 

[jamz]

A our range, they might ding you for pointing the muzzle up too high- beyond the berm. If you could angle the gun along the longitudinal axis instead, up close to your face, the way he was doing it toward the middle part of the video, it would be better. I'll have to practice that.

 

[Will Brink]

A our range, they might ding you for pointing the muzzle up too high- beyond the berm. If you could angle the gun along the longitudinal axis instead, up close to your face, the way he was doing it toward the middle part of the video, it would be better. I'll have to practice that.

The muzzle will be pointed above the burm, or darn close to it, which was one of the reasons I asked.

 

[Hamar]

There are a couple things here that need to be looked at.

#1. The question was asked re IDPA (a game) not a life threatening situation

#2. I KNOW I could make that reload and still see the threat

#3. The maneuver in question is a reload, I carry a Colt Commander, If I just fired all eight rounds of .45 hollow points at one bad guy, I would hope I have the time to look at my magwell while I reload. If not, I need to spend more time learning to shoot more accurately.

 

[TY43215]

To answer the question posed, an inexperienced IDPA SO will most likely make a muzzle call but would be premature in doing so.

I have had inexperienced or untrained SOs call muzzle on a revolver reload too. No PE given, just the call.

Any experienced shooter doing this type of reload will have it completed before the call can be made

As far as keeping your eye on the target (threat) That is the reason TJ teaches it this way to LE and Military operators. The peripheral vision allows the threat to be seen while you are looking the mag into the well.

Regards,

 

[Will Brink]

To answer the question posed, an inexperienced IDPA SO will most likely make a muzzle call but would be premature in doing so.

I have had inexperienced or untrained SOs call muzzle on a revolver reload too. No PE given, just the call.

Any experienced shooter doing this type of reload will have it completed before the call can be made

Regards,

That sounds about damn near the best answer I'm gonna get on the topic, and I suspected some SOs might call it, so I better be fast...

 

[Dan Hurley]

Todd is awesome, but for me the god of the reload is Travis Tomasie. I know that most of you have already seen legendary videos, but he still slays me everytime I watch it. And to watch him in real-life, I thought he'd just taken one hand off the gun for a nano-second, but there was the empty mag on the ground and he was off shooting elsewhere.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ggK2jQYcwAM&feature=related

If you dig up his videos at the AMU websites, you can also see him shoot a popper, reload, and shoot it again before it falls.

 

[P-14]

Playing IPSC or IDPA your problem may be an empty gun, but in a defensive situation, your problem remains the assailant. It's him, not a temporarily unloaded gun that will kill you. You shouldn't need to look at the magazine to determine which way the cartridges are pointed or at the gun to know exactly where the magwell is or to direct the hand holding the magazine to the hand holding the gun.

Ken

Thank you, Ken!

Regards,

Bob

 

[Hamar]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ggK2jQYcwAM&feature=related

Yep..looking at his mag well sure slows him down....If I was a bad guy, I'd sure'nuff have him right then!

 

[P-14]

Yep..looking at his mag well sure slows him down....If I was a bad guy, I'd sure'nuff have him right then!

If you can reload that quickly, you can reload any way you want. But, you (probably) and I can't. Still, try it in the dark. That would be the worst case scenario.

If you can reload quickly and efficiently when you can't see the firearm at all, you can reload anywhere and have luxury of looking at the mag well if you want to.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Chris]

The only real safety issue is the location of the shooter's trigger finger during the reload. If the shooter does not have good habits regarding his finger, I would view it as a safety issue.

However, by the time a shooter is getting to the point where techniques like this are used, they usually have the basics.

In either case, such a fault would be best called as "Finger" and not "Muzzle"

 

[TY43215]

If you can reload that quickly, you can reload any way you want. But, you (probably) and I can't. Still, try it in the dark. That would be the worst case scenario.

If you can reload quickly and efficiently when you can't see the firearm at all, you can reload anywhere and have luxury of looking at the mag well if you want to.

Regards,

Bob

You should be able to reload in the dark as well as the light . Want a challenge, try reloading a revolver in the dark

 

[P-14]

You should be able to reload in the dark as well as the light . Want a challenge, try reloading a revolver in the dark

My only revolver is a Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag that I used to use for hunting in NYS, but now only plink with. All the rest are semiautos and I compete and carry the .45s.

The Redhawk was the sexiest Christmas present my wife has ever given me and I will not part with it, even if MA will not let me hunt with it.

No, I probably cannot reload it easily in the dark, but it is a huge rush to shoot!

Regards,

Bob