Hanson has training now

[Emoto]

I am not sure about all the rules here, so please let me know if this is in any sort of violation and I will edit it or whatever.

Thought it would be worth mentioning that the Hanson Rod & Gun Club has been running monthly NRA training classes for a few months now and is getting pretty good feedback from the students.

It is the basic course being offered; the one you need to get your LTC.

The club arranges for the instructor to be present and reserves you a place in the class. Some of the money goes to the instructor for their time, but the cool thing is that some of the money goes to the club, and is used to maintain and improve the facilities, so that you have a place to shoot.

In addition, students receive free coupons that can be applied to various things around the club.

Learn more here: http://www.hansonrodandgunclub.com/training.html

Full disclosure: I am a member and director at the Hanson club, but I receive no monetary or other benefit of any kind from this training or from any club operations; I am strictly a volunteer. I just want to see our sport thrive, and we have tried to put together a good program. If you know anyone south of Boston who might like to take the course, send them along. We need all of the pro-firearms people in this state that we can get.

Thanks!

 

[The Ghost of 17776]

Thanks Director at the Hanson Club, you have provided some great information about training at your club, but you forgot a couple things about this program.

You didn't mention that the coordinator of this program, another director at the Hanson Club, who oversees all training has no credentials as an instructor, is not and never has been an NRA or MPTC instructor, and that to be an instructor under him you must play by his rules. And the coupons given to students are for the other products he sells at the club.

Because you didn't mention that, you also didn't mention that the club now prohibits any other instructor from teaching safety classes, and made a monopoly for the one instructor allowed to instruct by the training coordinator, yet another director at the Hanson Club, well in fairness "they" do say there is a second instructor, but nobody knows who that is (at this rate I'd guess another Director).

So what we got here is a Director of the Club, advertising a training program organized by another Director of the Club, which the class in only taught by yet another Director of the Club. Its no wonder you Dictators...sorry I mean Directors, like the program so much.

Full disclosure: I am no longer an active member at the Hanson club. Like many others I have lost my faith in some of the Directors at the Hanson Club. I used to volunteer back when we had that choice, but now it is manditory that I "volunteer". I just want to see our sport thrive, but I see members driven away and am of the opinion that it is sad to see a club that once had 20+ intructors now only have 1. We need all of the pro-firearms people in this state that we can get, but now its just best to pack up and move north.

Thanks!

I am not sure about all the rules here, so please let me know if this is in any sort of violation and I will edit it or whatever.

Thought it would be worth mentioning that the Hanson Rod & Gun Club http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/images/emoticons/034.gifhas been running monthly NRA training classes for a few months now and is getting pretty good feedback from the students.

It is the basic course being offered; the one you need to get your LTC.

The club arranges for the instructor to be present and reserves you a place in the class. Some of the money goes to the instructor for their time, but the cool thing is that some of the money goes to the club, and is used to maintain and improve the facilities, so that you have a place to shoot.

In addition, students receive free coupons that can be applied to various things around the club.

Learn more here: http://www.hansonrodandgunclub.com/training.html

Full disclosure: I am a member and director at the Hanson club, but I receive no monetary or other benefit of any kind from this training or from any club operations; I am strictly a volunteer. I just want to see our sport thrive, and we have tried to put together a good program. If you know anyone south of Boston who might like to take the course, send them along. We need all of the pro-firearms people in this state that we can get.

Thanks!

 

[Emoto]

Thanks Director at the Hanson Club, you have provided some great information about training at your club, but you forgot a couple things about this program.

I included a link to the web page, rather than post everything here.

"17776"? Whose troll account is this?

You didn't mention that the coordinator of this program, another director at the Hanson Club, who oversees all training has no credentials as an instructor, is not and never has been an NRA or MPTC instructor, and that to be an instructor under him you must play by his rules. And the coupons given to students are for the other products he sells at the club.

Let's take a look at those things one at a time.

The club provides a venue, coordinates students, instructors, and arranges the training dates. All of the actual training is given by NRA/MPTC certified instructor(s). Must someone who arranges class times, student registrations, and instructor presence - in other words all of the associated administrative non-teaching tasks - hold instructor certification in order to do so? No reasonable person would think so.

I am not sure what you mean by "must play by his rules" but every activity at the club that has a chairman is run by that chairman. Each chairman is responsible for setting up the rules for that activity. If anyone has an issue with any of the rules, they can bring it up the chain of command and to the board if necessary. If you have concerns, that is the path to follow.

As to the coupons, I did mention that they are for various things around the club. You even quoted that. Those coupons make the training even more appealing to people, and gives them an incentive to try things at the club. It is hard to fault that idea.

Because you didn't mention that, you also didn't mention that the club now prohibits any other instructor from teaching safety classes, and made a monopoly for the one instructor allowed to instruct by the training coordinator, yet another director at the Hanson Club, well in fairness "they" do say there is a second instructor, but nobody knows who that is (at this rate I'd guess another Director).

I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here. For many years, the club rules (posted in the clubhouse) allowed private paid instruction to take place on club grounds. Those same rules required instructors to give a small portion of the money they made while using the clubhouse, ranges, heat, electricity, etc., to the club, to help defray those expenses. It was only fair, otherwise everyone else's dues were paying for your facilities that you used to make money. Guess how many of the instructors followed the rule of a portion of their $ going to the club.

Faced with this widespread disregard for the rules, all training was taken "in house" and is not allowed unless administered through the club. This and other reasons are why many of the clubs in the area have taken similar steps and run the training themselves. The clubs need a fair solution that works for everyone and most seem to have found one.

So what we got here is a Director of the Club, advertising a training program organized by another Director of the Club, which the class in only taught by yet another Director of the Club. Its no wonder you Dictators...sorry I mean Directors, like the program so much.

The simple fact of the matter is that the directors are among the most active in doing the actual "hands on" work of the daily operations of the club, so they do a lot of the tasks that have to be done. This is true at most clubs. We are currently seeking more instructors and I believe we have a couple of new ones lined up. The guy who has been doing the teaching is delighted to only have to do it every once in a while.

Speaking for myself only, what I don't think is good is to have instructors who can't ever be reached and/or don't return calls to arrange class times, or people who have had a history of safety violations at the club, or other negative aspects. We need good people we can depend on.

Full disclosure: I am no longer an active member at the Hanson club. Like many others I have lost my faith in some of the Directors at the Hanson Club. I used to volunteer back when we had that choice, but now it is manditory that I "volunteer". I just want to see our sport thrive, but I see members driven away and am of the opinion that it is sad to see a club that once had 20+ intructors now only have 1. We need all of the pro-firearms people in this state that we can get, but now its just best to pack up and move north.

Thanks!

Had the instructors followed the rules, rules that they pledged to adhere to as members, this change in how instruction is done might never have taken place. It is unfortunate that sometimes a change is necessary. This was one of those times.

At each class, we do a little survey to find out what was good and what we could improve. The good news is that we have been receiving almost universally positive feedback from the students, and the classes tend to fill up quickly with most of the students registering based on word of mouth - the recommendation of a friend. That says a lot.

We want the training classes to be a positive experience for the students. Many are people who are new to the shooting sports, may have never been to a gun club before, and we hope that they find the enjoyment in it that so many of us have.

 

[The Ghost of 17776]

Let's take a look at those things one at a time.

LETS....

The club provides a venue, coordinates students, instructors, and arranges the training dates. All of the actual training is given by NRA/MPTC certified instructor(s). Must someone who arranges class times, student registrations, and instructor presence - in other words all of the associated administrative non-teaching tasks - hold instructor certification in order to do so? No reasonable person would think so.

Until that non-certified administrator, demands to sit in on the class to ensure it is instructed to the proper level of standards. So he shall judge an instructor on standards he has not met, how does he know what standards there are to meet?

I am not sure what you mean by "must play by his rules" but every activity at the club that has a chairman is run by that chairman. Each chairman is responsible for setting up the rules for that activity.

And in this case the Non-certified chairman, decides who is qualified to teach the course, only allows 1 course a month and tells when the course is, irregardless of if an instructor has students in need of a class who are only available on other days and times.

I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here. For many years, the club rules (posted in the clubhouse) allowed private paid instruction to take place on club grounds. Those same rules required instructors to give a small portion of the money they made while using the clubhouse, ranges, heat, electricity, etc., to the club, to help defray those expenses. It was only fair, otherwise everyone else's dues were paying for your facilities that you used to make money. Guess how many of the instructors followed the rule of a portion of their $ going to the club.

Here we go again with the new Boards forced volunteerism, the only manditory instrutor rule I remember was instructors needed to have insurance, instructors had the option to make donations to the club if they felt they taught at the club, then you decided to make the donations manditory, and then with this new program you shut off instruction for all but one instructor, who is also happens to be a fellow member of the board of dictators.

Faced with this widespread disregard for the rules, all training was taken "in house" and is not allowed unless administered through the club.

Rules rules rules, maybe that is why members are now going else where, just take a look in the club section of this forum, someone else posted that the exessive rules is his reason for leaving the club, so to pretend that I am just a troll is avoiding the truth, I am new to this forum but not new to the goings on of Hanson.

IAt each class, we do a little survey to find out what was good and what we could improve. The good news is that we have been receiving almost universally positive feedback from the students, and the classes tend to fill up quickly with most of the students registering based on word of mouth - the recommendation of a friend. That says a lot.

You went from about 20 instructors to ONE, Its easy to fill a class when you are the only show in town.

 

[Emoto]

LETS....

Until that non-certified administrator, demands to sit in on the class to ensure it is instructed to the proper level of standards. So he shall judge an instructor on standards he has not met, how does he know what standards there are to meet?

"Demands"? You seem to be unclear on the fact that committee chairs, elected directors and officers are in charge of their activities and have not only the right, but the obligation to to monitor the activities that they are in charge of. You make a problem out of something that isn't one.

And in this case the Non-certified chairman, decides who is qualified to teach the course, only allows 1 course a month and tells when the course is, irregardless of if an instructor has students in need of a class who are only available on other days and times.

As I pointed out earlier, the certification of the chairman is completely irrelevant. Dates for classes are set by working with instructors far enough in advance for people to have a chance to sign up. Students sign up through the club; it is no longer a free-for-all.

Here we go again with the new Boards forced volunteerism, the only manditory instrutor rule I remember was instructors needed to have insurance, instructors had the option to make donations to the club if they felt they taught at the club, then you decided to make the donations manditory, and then with this new program you shut off instruction for all but one instructor, who is also happens to be a fellow member of the board of dictators.

Ignoring your childish name calling, I cannot comment on your memory of club rules, only on the actual rules printed in black and white. The rule about sharing money made on club property by instructors was not new; it had been that way for years and years. Since the instructors managed to ignore the rules, we had to make a change. One instructor immediately stepped up and worked within the new rules. We now have more than one. We also now know who is on our club property and when, and part of the proceeds now go to the club. This is as fair and equitable an arrangement as we have been able to design.

Rules rules rules, maybe that is why members are now going else where, just take a look in the club section of this forum, someone else posted that the exessive rules is his reason for leaving the club, so to pretend that I am just a troll is avoiding the truth, I am new to this forum but not new to the goings on of Hanson.

You went from about 20 instructors to ONE, Its easy to fill a class when you are the only show in town.

The only truth being avoided here is that instructors can no longer run a business out of club property making hundreds of dollars each time while using club facilities, heat, and electricity for free anymore. It was unfair for dues-paying members to support someone's money-making business with their dues money, and now the playing field has been leveled. We want as fair a program as can be made; if you have constructive suggestions, please send a letter to the BoD or the club president.

 

[securityboy]

Emoto,
I have been sitting on the sidelnes watching this unravel, and having a hard time making any comment on it, because I am not sure a public forum is the best place to air the clubs laundry, but since you a board of director seem to be OK with it, I will at least make a few comment.
You know well who I am, I am not troll, nor do I back down from an issue (but I have no stake in the training issue). I am a huge supporter of this club, and do my best to show a possative light on it. Only days ago I posted a resonse to "MMF" explaining some of the reasoning behind some rules, rules which seemed to be part of his decission to leave the club.
It seems there has been an odd change in direction with the B.O.D. as of late and that direction has been largely divisive, and hopefully with the election of two new officers the "new blood" will help re-unite the club. But at this point I really must comment on the overall tone of the above reply's by you, they have been "B.O.D. decides, Chairman's policy, New Rule, Old Rule, everywhere a Rule-Rule" (OK thats a bit of the sarcasm that gets me in trouble on this board), but seriously maybe our club is outgrowing some members, maybe the "leftist" ideals of massachusetts have finnally infiltrated and taken hold of our gun club, becasue a lot of that sounds like "big governemnt" to me...
Emoto, surely your intentions are good, but think about what you are writing, and surely the "ghost" may be a troll, or he may be a current/former memeber who doesn't want to deal with the BS of the B.O.D. But I am no troll, and I'd like you to consider members like MMF, and the the two committee chairs who abruptly resigned during the past year. Is the "micromanagement" really helping the club, when it causes good people to walk out the door???

 

[Emoto]

I appreciate your comments, and know you to be always thinking and a straight shooter. I don't intend to air anything not common knowledge, but when I feel the need to respond to something I see as misleading or negative, I try to do my best. I sought out the other thread, and found it interesting and thought-provoking. FWIW, I keep trying to get rid of the paper only rule on the 100 yd range, someday I may succeed. If you check into it, we really don't have all that many rules. When someone disagrees with one, calling elected officers dictators, then that makes it sound worse than it really is. If you happen to see some rule that you think is bad or unnecessary, please bring it to me (privately) and I will bring it up to the board for getting rid of, as representing "a member's request". I sure don't want any more rules than necessary.

The instructor issue isn't one of micro-management; it is a policy and fairness question: Do you allow people to operate private for-profit businesses out of facilities paid for by the members? We didn't think so, and made policy accordingly. It seems that some other area clubs were ahead of us in this decision. Now, with our holding a single class per month, charging low rates, and retaining only a portion of the proceeds, the club is making a respectable amount of money on the program. Programs like this help to keep the dues rate stable while operating expenses climb. I see it as good for the club, good for the members, and good for the sport.

 

[Supermoto]

Speaking of Hanson... how's that pistol range coming, the one that I was charged extra dues for... that ever go in.

I haven't been there in a couple of years

 

[securityboy]

The instructor issue isn't one of micro-management; it is a policy and fairness question: Do you allow people to operate private for-profit businesses out of facilities paid for by the members? We didn't think so, and made policy accordingly..

Let me explain the "problem" I have with this situation, my perspective comes form being a member for a number of years and whating the different "shifts in power" . The club has "always" (by that I mean as long as I recall) had an open policy for instructors, but about 8-10 years ago a single instructor had an unofficial "monopoly" on the instruction hled at the club, that one member was a B.O.D. member, lets just call him Jack Daniels Well enough people complained and probably 6-7 years ago training really opened up, and from that point on if a member knew of some one in need of a class they could walk in the clubhouse and choose from A LOT of different instructors who were allowed to leave their cards there, to help promote the "free market"...Then BAM a year a go notice gets posted at the club all instruction must be "through" the club, and whether by intent (I hope not) or by happenstance from that point on as far as I have heard only 1 person has been instructing, and that person is a B.O.D. member.
I think that is why there is resentment to this program, and realisticly I think the reason it isn't brought up more often, except by the occasional grumbling from "former instructors" is its sort of a moot point for 99% of members, we don't need the class. But I can assure you I have heard the issue raised by more than one "regular member" (with no connection to the training past/present)...

 

[Emoto]

Jack Daniels

To your question above, it was happenstance only. Other instructors can (and now are) involved, and I would hope that others will, too.