Frozen berms

[fivepak]

I just wanted to get the opinions of members here on closing a range over frozen berms. I belong to Nashua Fish and Game Club and in the last few winters they've been shutting down certain ranges due to frozen berms. All the ranges don't shut down, it's up to the discretion of the range governor. At NFGA the Federal and Fowler ranges are the most used. The range governor of the Federal range(pistol) range just closed it until further notice. Realistically the berm may not thaw for 2 1/2 months. This seems like a good chunk of the year that I can't use a facility I paid to use. If this berm is frozen and presents a hazard, how can the other berms not be frozen? Do frozen berms really present a rochocette hazard? I think a lot of these range governors get on power trips.

 

[soloman02]

I just wanted to get the opinions of members here on closing a range over frozen berms. I belong to Nashua Fish and Game Club and in the last few winters they've been shutting down certain ranges due to frozen berms. All the ranges don't shut down, it's up to the discretion of the range governor. At NFGA the Federal and Fowler ranges are the most used. The range governor of the Federal range(pistol) range just closed it until further notice. Realistically the berm may not thaw for 2 1/2 months. This seems like a good chunk of the year that I can't use a facility I paid to use. If this berm is frozen and presents a hazard, how can the other berms not be frozen? Do frozen berms really present a rochocette hazard? I think a lot of these range governors get on power trips.

Major Waldron Sportsman's Association in Barrington never closes the berms due to them freezing. This could be because they receive a ton of sunlight. I know Farmington Fish and Game in New Durham had to close their pistol range for about a month or two last year due to it freezing. They were finding bullets behind the shooting line in the dirt road behind the pistol range. I don't know if it was really due to it freezing or due to retards who can't shoot (they had 1500 people join in less than two years, they were after all only charging $30 per year to join). The pistol range does not receive much direct sunlight however since it is surround by trees.

 

[nhfiat]

Hi. I am also a member of NF&G. Could it be because the Federal Range berm is at 33 feet and the minimum distance at Fowler is 25 yards?

Mark

 

[fivepak]

Hi. I am also a member of NF&G. Could it be because the Federal Range berm is at 33 feet and the minimum distance at Fowler is 25 yards?

Mark

That could be it, and Federal doesn't get a lot of sunlight. They have closed the Fowler range in the past do to frozen berms.

 

[NeverMiss]

HA! A year or so ago, a ricochet from a 9mm that hit a frozen berm cracked the windshiled of my car, that was parked behind me, and to my right. Frozen berms are a BIG concern...be careful.

 

[misturg]

HA! A year or so ago, a ricochet from a 9mm that hit a frozen berm cracked the windshiled of my car, that was parked behind me, and to my right. Frozen berms are a BIG concern...be careful.

How do you know it didn't hit a rock.

 

[Acme.Armament]

How do you know it didn't hit a rock.

Exactly. He doesn't know and no one would.
Show me a scientific study of the effect of different caliber bullets hitting a frozen berm. Don't forget to make sure it includes angle of trajectory, distance from berm of the firing lines, bullet weight and composition, berm construction, how long the berm has been frozen, etc..

Then show me IF bulletsricochett from a frozen berm. I have shot plenty at frozen berms and never had a bullet ricochet.

 

[pdm]

Would a nice layer of wood chips solve this problem?

 

[atilla]

i would never agree to closing my range due to the temperature of the dirt.

that's silly.

read it out loud "the dirt is too cold to shoot with guns."

c'mon.

 

[cekim]

i would never agree to closing my range due to the temperature of the dirt.

that's silly.

read it out loud "the dirt is too cold to shoot with guns."

c'mon.

Actually, it is not nearly as silly as it sounds. Ice/snow is a fantastic reflector of bullets. Most of them get trapped without damage (you will find many pristine projectiles on the ground after it melts), but you do need to consider ricochets if you get a hard freeze. Eye protection takes care of most problems, but it depends on your site. I've had completely intact pistol projectiles come back at me from a frozen berm.

Relatively harmless, but it gets your attention.

 

[Snake]

That could be it, and Federal doesn't get a lot of sunlight. They have closed the Fowler range in the past do to frozen berms.

After being there a few years now, the range closings due to frozen berms tends to pattern with cold snaps and little to no snow. Federal usually closes first (less sunlight, smaller size), followed by Fowler, with Leveridge last.

It is the governor's call for closing, but I do remember being told once that the SOP for checking berm "safety" was to jam a stick in, if it doesn't go the range gets closed. As you can tell, they tend to run things in a CYA/Fudd mode due to issues in the past.

 

[warwickben]

http://youtu.be/PF7Q8xSpqiI

 

[atilla]

Actually, it is not nearly as silly as it sounds. Ice/snow is a fantastic reflector of bullets. Most of them get trapped without damage (you will find many pristine projectiles on the ground after it melts), but you do need to consider ricochets if you get a hard freeze. Eye protection takes care of most problems, but it depends on your site. I've had completely intact pistol projectiles come back at me from a frozen berm.

Relatively harmless, but it gets your attention.

doesn't even need to be frozen to have fun like this, ask sweetjeep.

 

[nhfiat]

Frozen Berm... I mostly go to MFL in the winter. It's too cold to shoot outside. I go back to NFG in the spring

 

[NeverMiss]

Exactly. He doesn't know and no one would.
Show me a scientific study of the effect of different caliber bullets hitting a frozen berm. Don't forget to make sure it includes angle of trajectory, distance from berm of the firing lines, bullet weight and composition, berm construction, how long the berm has been frozen, etc..

Then show me IF bulletsricochett from a frozen berm. I have shot plenty at frozen berms and never had a bullet ricochet.

Well, ok, right...it COULD have been a rock. It was a sand berm.

 

[kbrady54]

Tyngsboro does still have this policy. That said, the flags were still there to signal range open as of last night.

 

[Loosh]

After being there a few years now, the range closings due to frozen berms tends to pattern with cold snaps and little to no snow. Federal usually closes first (less sunlight, smaller size), followed by Fowler, with Leveridge last.

It is the governor's call for closing, but I do remember being told once that the SOP for checking berm "safety" was to jam a stick in, if it doesn't go the range gets closed. As you can tell, they tend to run things in a CYA/Fudd mode due to issues in the past.

Truth. Most of the CYA stuff has come *after* people did stupid things on the ranges (shooting holes in the ceiling of the indoor range, 30-06 on the plinking range (against rules), range escapes, etc) Even before the issues a while back the ranges would be closed as soon as there was a hard freeze. There were rumors of letting the 25/50/100 yard range stay open for centerfire rifles, but that was a year ago and I haven't heard any updates recently.

 

[MisterHappy]

Yes, it's a Fudd rule. But as stated above, many "Fudd" rules are actually reactions to problems that happened, before....possibly LONG before.

If you don't like the range closure, bring it up at the next Monthly Meeting, or, depending on your Club's rules, bring it to the BoD, or whomever controlls the thing.

If you think that they're wrong, get on the Board.

I'm not on my Club's board, but I've been present for several BoD meetings, and it's often the "sausage being made", complete with arguments over the recipies.

Range closures suck, but I can think of no "shootng" (as opposed ot social) club that wants to close ranges.....