Filling out FA-10 for out of state transfer?

Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
979
Likes
67
Location
NH
Spoke with a person at CHSB over the phone today and got some very interesting information. I asked him about out of state transfers to a valid FFL holder. And i told him theres no way to do such a thing via E-Fa-10. He told me those transactions would require you to fill out a paper FA-10 instead and list it as a personal transfer. WTF? How is it a personal transfer when it goes to a valid FFL out of state? Personal transfers are for instate residents only. Under federal law you are allowed to ship and or transfer a firearm to a valid FFL unlimited times. Did i miss something here? So then youd be limited 4 per year of any kind of sale?

Another flaw i mentioned is that when doing a registration the sellers name would disappear off the final pdf file to save or for print out. He said you are not required to fill out that section even though it shows up like you have to. So basicly you volurtarily put info you not required to. But he said all info still goes into the database.

Then i also asked him about getting paper FA-10s he said he would ship them to my local pd instead, no more at home delievry requests. He also mentioned something about new paper FA-10s that are not in a 3 part carbon paper format. Now they are a single sheet and require you to make a copy for you other party and yourself. Another WTF.

He mentions others have had concerns about the system as well and that the system was created by computer programers that are not firearm law savy, and then said they are working on updating the system with fixes when ever they can.

I think i may call GOAL and let them know about this new cluster F if they dont already.
 
Last edited:
Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
979
Likes
67
Location
NH
Last edited:

Len-2A Training

Instructor
Instructor
NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 98.6%
73   1   0
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
55,512
Likes
17,136
Location
NH
GOAL was on top of it when it went live. GOAL can't do anything about it.

Interesting wrt burning your 4 FTF/year by filling out the outgoing to FFL FA-10s. In that case I wouldn't bother filling them out at all. They created a dumb-ass monster here.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
1,169
Likes
289
Location
Gloucester
So, the FA-10 forms/process are flawed? I am a newbie here and last week was the first time that I ever even heard of FA-10s, during the course of a 30+ years shooting career. All of my firearms purchases, since I got my first FID back in 1979, were in NH. Occasionally, I would horse-trade a firearm to a NH or ME dealer for something else that I would need (always outdoors-related, naturally!) or maybe a new rifle or shotgun. I just dealt with the dealers who held the FFLs and let them worry about it. Never had a problem. Never did a face-to-face sale or purchase with an individual. Dealers only for me. Never filled out an FA-10 and I wouldn't even know what one looks like. These FA-10s, assuming that the people on this forum are correct, may be legally flawed. If that is the case, they should be avoided like the plague until the error(s) are corrected and the bugs are worked out. I would much rather not submit any type of government form at all than submit one that might be incorrect and lead to problems down the road. What a wake-up call! Glad I don't have any FA-10s in my name at this point.
 
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
5,819
Likes
1,942
Location
Milford, MA
Personal transfers are for instate residents only. Under federal law you are allowed to ship and or transfer a firearm to a valid FFL unlimited times. Did i miss something here? .

No, I believe you have your answer. That is the flaw of the FA-10 system. Since it is for in state transfers only, any time you sell a gun out of state, there is no record of it with CHSB so the state still lists you as owning a gun that has left your possession. I sold my Browning A5 to a member in CT. My FFL shipped it to his FFL but I gaurantee if I check with the CHSB, I am still listed as owning an A5.
 

LittleCalm

NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
3,916
Likes
2,703
Location
NH
The age old question of FA-10s for out of state transfers. There are other threads discussing this. For e.g., if you sell a long gun directly to an out of state FFL, do you file an FA-10? For handgun transfers, where your FFL records the transaction on his books, do you fill out an FA-10 anyway? In state transfers through FFLs don't present a problem b/c the buyer completes an FA-10 in connection with the transaction. In the other cases mentioned above, the state doesn't know you transfered the firearm out of state. Most people seem to not worry about it and don't file the FA-10. These are the questions that have been debated.
 
Last edited:
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
1,169
Likes
289
Location
Gloucester
Another reason to scrap the FA-10 system altogether.
From what I have been reading on this forum, the only real reason for the FA-10 is for Big Brother to keep a complete dossier on all firearms that you own. Real good resource for the cops, come confiscation time. Bad juju in my books. Never used one and never plan to.
 
Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
979
Likes
67
Location
NH
Why would you fill out a FA-10 to transfer to a FFL?

Ask the CHSB they are under the impression thats what you need to do when you sell a firearm out of state and even in state to a FFL if they do not do it for you.

If you ship it yourself to a confirmed valid FFL out of state, it still needs an FA-10 according to CHSB.

When you take a firearm you sold out of state to a local FFL to ship it for you, that also requires a FA-10 according to CHSB. Your local FFL takes ownership of it when you leave it which makes it a transfer.

In any event you are the seller and its your responsiblity according to them.

The whole system is a paper trail disaster with misinformed , non-enthusiasts running the show.
 
Last edited:

Len-2A Training

Instructor
Instructor
NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 98.6%
73   1   0
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
55,512
Likes
17,136
Location
NH
No, I believe you have your answer. That is the flaw of the FA-10 system. Since it is for in state transfers only, any time you sell a gun out of state, there is no record of it with CHSB so the state still lists you as owning a gun that has left your possession. I sold my Browning A5 to a member in CT. My FFL shipped it to his FFL but I gaurantee if I check with the CHSB, I am still listed as owning an A5.

Correct and I can see advantages to getting it out of my/your name when you no longer possess it.

FFL's BB is irrelevant here as that is legally ONLY accessible by BATFE and an FFL is NOT required to produce it for any local/state police in any state!


From what I have been reading on this forum, the only real reason for the FA-10 is for Big Brother to keep a complete dossier on all firearms that you own. Real good resource for the cops, come confiscation time. Bad juju in my books. Never used one and never plan to.

Think and do what you like, but I fail to understand why you keep bragging about committing numerous felonies and think that you are impervious to prosecution! [frown]

The nail that sticks up gets hammered and LE can subpoena Derek's records to determine who you are and where you live if they desire to make an example of you. Personally I don't care what you do or don't do, but you might think twice about continuing to brag about it.



The age old question of FA-10s for out of state transfers. There are other threads discussing this. For e.g., if you sell a long gun directly to an out of state FFL, do you file an FA-10? For handgun transfers, where your FFL records the transaction on his books, do you fill out an FA-10 anyway? In state transfers through FFLs don't present a problem b/c the buyer completes an FA-10 in connection with the transaction. In the other cases mentioned above, the state doesn't know you transfered the firearm out of state. Most people seem to not worry about it and don't file the FA-10. These are the questions that have been debated.

In state FFLs won't do FA-10 on "incoming" guns and they may also sell out of state. Many MA dealers do a brisk Gun Broker/GA/etc. business selling guns. See above about BB.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
1,169
Likes
289
Location
Gloucester
Correct and I can see advantages to getting it out of my/your name when you no longer possess it.

FFL's BB is irrelevant here as that is legally ONLY accessible by BATFE and an FFL is NOT required to produce it for any local/state police in any state!




Think and do what you like, but I fail to understand why you keep bragging about committing numerous felonies and think that you are impervious to prosecution! [frown]

The nail that sticks up gets hammered and LE can subpoena Derek's records to determine who you are and where you live if they desire to make an example of you. Personally I don't care what you do or don't do, but you might think twice about continuing to brag about it.





In state FFLs won't do FA-10 on "incoming" guns and they may also sell out of state. Many MA dealers do a brisk Gun Broker/GA/etc. business selling guns. See above about BB.
Well, I if they want to go chasing waterfalls, then I wish them the best of luck. I have had personal problems in the past (not criminal) and have my smartphone under an assumed name and and an address that is not mine. You mentioned that FA-10s might be legally flawed. That is akin to a an unseaworthy ship, as far as I am concerned. Only a fool would board a leaky ship. If the FA-10s are, indeed, legally flawed as you and others seem to indicate, then why would I want anything to do with them? Either they are kosher or they are not. If not kosher, then no dice. I have had decades of firearm ownership, hunting and shooting under my belt and I never even heard of FA-10s. If I was truly a "felon", I am sure that I would have heard about it by now or have been charged. Dealers never mentioned it, the cops who issued/renewed my FID over the decades never mentioned it and the guys/gals at my club never mentioned it. Never made the newspapers or TV in this state, either. Strange, eh?
 
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
5,150
Likes
2,074
Location
citizen turned Felon in CT
but I gaurantee if I check with the CHSB, I am still listed as owning an A5.

They would have a field day with me....

CHSB- "Mr JoeT it shows that you own x"
me- not anymore
CHSB-"to whom did you transfer it to?
Me- I sold it to a guy in a yellow toyota, I think he said his name was Bob

CHSB- "how about gun Y"
me- I traded that to some guy for a lawnmower, I think his name was Carl, maybe Kurt?

CHSB-"Gun Z?"
me- Nope


In the 3 years I was in CO, there must have been 2 dozen transfers (to me and from me) I did in parking lots with guys I don't know their name with no paper trail. One guy I met at a biker bar, where we looked over guns while sitting at the bar having a beer (guns not loaded). Another guy was a car salesman at an audi dealer...we made our deal sitting at his desk in the showroom. Nobody panicked, nobody called the cops, no kids were shot
 

LittleCalm

NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
3,916
Likes
2,703
Location
NH
I agree Len, though my recollection is that the statute clearly states that the form is not needed for transfers to a dealer. With the eFA-10 protocol, it's easy to just file the form in all transactions.
 

JGreen

NES Member
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
1,812
Likes
475
Location
Centrally locatated to several GREAT gun clubs
See Chapter 140 section 128A

No FA10 required when the gun is received by an FFL. Just stating the facts. Common sense dictates getting a receipt.

When dealing with bureaucrats one should never ever take their word. Require them to provide the statute or regulation. Advice given to me by a retired bureaucrat.
 
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
392
Likes
86
From what I have been reading on this forum, the only real reason for the FA-10 is for Big Brother to keep a complete dossier on all firearms that you own. Real good resource for the cops, come confiscation time. Bad juju in my books. Never used one and never plan to.

Hope you're not a Mass. resident! :popcorn:
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
18,157
Likes
9,217
Why would you fill out a FA-10 to transfer to a FFL?

Worst case scenario...

When police investigated further they located Becker’s father at an assisted living home. But police also discovered Richard Becker had owned 18 guns in the late 1990s his firearm identification card had expired in 1998, and there was no record that he had gotten rid of the weapons. Police also discovered two warrants for Becker’s arrest for failure to report to Norfolk County jury duty in Quincy.

O’Leary said police then obtained a search warrant for Becker’s home, but waited for him to come out Monday because of concern about what might happen if police attempted to enter his home and Becker tried to defend himself.

Brookline Police seize weapons cache near Coolidge Corner - Brookline - Your Town - Boston.com

NES thread... http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...64151-cops-seize-firearms-brookline-home.html

I admit... there were a lot of other factors in play here, however... there being no record of the firearms being disposed of, gave the man one more excuse to put the screws to this guy.

FWIW... I also know for a fact that that the FRB has 3 transactions on record of firearms that I no longer own, all to an FFL.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
1,169
Likes
289
Location
Gloucester
Worst case scenario...



Brookline Police seize weapons cache near Coolidge Corner - Brookline - Your Town - Boston.com

NES thread... http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...64151-cops-seize-firearms-brookline-home.html

I admit... there were a lot of other factors in play here, however... there being no record of the firearms being disposed of, gave the man one more excuse to put the screws to this guy.

FWIW... I also know for a fact that that the FRB has 3 transactions on record of firearms that I no longer own, all to an FFL.
This guy followed all of the MA-dictated "rules". He did the registrations and paid the price for it. My point exactly. Hopefully, lessons learned for the rest of us. MA government is not your friend!
 
Top Bottom