inerlogic
NES Member
only every three years when the 03 is renewed....
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Does a C&R seller need to see your LTC in addition to your C&R licence?
- Thread starter milktree
- Start date
only every three years when the 03 is renewed....
40 caliber
NES Member
I have always asked to see the LtC of the buyer (even the seller) when I work with someone from MA. I live in NH. The FFL has no picture ID and could belong to your brother in law or been stolen for all i know. You dont sign it until you make a copy and use it. I therefore only need one of your blank copies to have a field day.
I have never had a problem from anyone with my request. I without being asked provide my license for proof as the LTC in NH has no picture either.
My sale , my rules... if you don't like it go buy elsewhere. I am not going to sell to someone I dont know without confirmation. losing my FFL or having legal problems selling to the wrong person (a felon, whatever) isn't worth the price of any of my firearms.
I have never had a problem from anyone with my request. I without being asked provide my license for proof as the LTC in NH has no picture either.
My sale , my rules... if you don't like it go buy elsewhere. I am not going to sell to someone I dont know without confirmation. losing my FFL or having legal problems selling to the wrong person (a felon, whatever) isn't worth the price of any of my firearms.
So someone is going to steal an FFL03 copy, buy a C&R and then camp out at the (home) address listed on the FFL03 and wait for the mailman? I guess stranger things have been done before.
I get the whole "My sale, my rules" bit. I've completed a number of FFL03 transactions and have never been asked for my LTC... I think someone did ask for a copy of my Drivers License once? FFL03's can also be verified by the seller but not on the web, you need to call the ATF. I once had a seller balk because he was unable to validate my FFL03 in the ATF web portal. They do that for privacy reasons as FFL03s are linked to home addresses.
I opted to let my old licensed expire. I didn't like the section on the renewal where it asked how many guns I've acquired / sold with the existing licensed as a copy of the renewal needs to go to your CLEO. I did a quick count in the safe and by Massachusetts standards it would certainly qualify as an "arsenal". I had a new license in hand 3 weeks after the old one expired.
I get the whole "My sale, my rules" bit. I've completed a number of FFL03 transactions and have never been asked for my LTC... I think someone did ask for a copy of my Drivers License once? FFL03's can also be verified by the seller but not on the web, you need to call the ATF. I once had a seller balk because he was unable to validate my FFL03 in the ATF web portal. They do that for privacy reasons as FFL03s are linked to home addresses.
I opted to let my old licensed expire. I didn't like the section on the renewal where it asked how many guns I've acquired / sold with the existing licensed as a copy of the renewal needs to go to your CLEO. I did a quick count in the safe and by Massachusetts standards it would certainly qualify as an "arsenal". I had a new license in hand 3 weeks after the old one expired.
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That's why shipping the gun is reasonable. Asking for an LTC is a separate thing. (and although unlikely, the edge case of the LTC expiring before the FFL03 makes it a not totally unreasonable request)
You know it's only C&R guns that go in the bound book that they care about, right?
Yes, "they" is the ATF.
You realize your local PD probably has no idea what an 03 is (mine didn't), and that they pay no attention at all to your renewal? And that even if they did, they've got no statutory ability to come check out your arsenal? And that they know what you've got anyway with a couple of keystrokes, rather than digging up your ratty old copy of your 03 courtesy notice?
I mean, I use tinfoil too. But you're taking it to another level.
You realize your local PD probably has no idea what an 03 is (mine didn't), and that they pay no attention at all to your renewal? And that even if they did, they've got no statutory ability to come check out your arsenal? And that they know what you've got anyway with a couple of keystrokes, rather than digging up your ratty old copy of your 03 courtesy notice?
I mean, I use tinfoil too. But you're taking it to another level.
The only acquisitions and dispositions you're required to count on the C&R renewal are ones that went into your bound book, which means only the C&R guns, not anything else. Bought a new AR or sold a Glock? The ATF doesn't care and they shouldn't be counted on the renewal form.
40 caliber
NES Member
When you use your CR you sign a copy of the original. if you have not marked it in someway for that particular sale, there is no way to tell what sale it is used for unless you write it on the license. It has no place to do that. a lot of people mark them file copy but so what. its always a file copy. I always sign it , mark it file copy and "M1 carbine" or whatever.
Whether the seller you gave it to or his buddy used it, you would not know. without a second form of ID, anyone can use a signed copy. Since it is already a copy of the original, there is also potential of white out on the signature, copy it and re sign it. granted in a FTF sale you can ask them to sign it in person, but a purchase off gunbroker would require an original signed copy. (i.e the one you signed for the last sale).
Is this possible? yes very much so.... Likely? I dont know. I do know asking for an LTC / second ID shows I used due diligence in my sale.
NH law on gun sales also refers to a private sale as allowed as "someone known to you" . One way to satisfy that requirement would be to have a copy of or see a picture ID.
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