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Class Review: On Sight Firearms - Defensive Shotgun 4-14-19 - Middleboro

Discussion in 'OnSight Firearms Training' started by jeffwatch, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. jeffwatch

    jeffwatch NES Member

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    CLASS REVIEW: On Sight Firearms: Defensive Shotgun
    Welcome to Onsight Firearms Training, LLC
    April 14, 2019
    Middleboro, MA​

    [​IMG]


    Weather: beautiful. Sun/slight cloud cover. 55-65 degrees.
    Clothing: Jeans, knee pads, T-shirt, hiking boots, baseball hat & sunglasses.

    Mossberg 590A1 with extended mag (8+1), SureFire Dedicated Shotgun Forend (DSF), Aridus Industries CROM, RMR type 2, Velcro side saddle, M&P 2.0(c) OWB w/blue alpha belt, G-code OWB single mag carrier.

    Round count: birdshot (300+/-), buckshot (50+/-), slug (25+/-)

    Backup guns if main guns go down: Mossberg 930 JM PRO & Glock 19 (did not use)
    ----
    Followed Ben DeWalt from meeting place to the range. Less than a five-minute drive. Private range inside a cranberry bog. Dirt road with large bumps & mud puddles, trucks recommended. The range was a private range 100 yards long with 9 firing lanes. All sand. A small covered area, a picnic table, and a portable toilet. Very nice private range.

    Full class of 9 students. Three of us knew each other from the pistol class fall 2018. Good to see familiar faces. Shot-out to alumni’s Steve and Rocco! All of us in the class were psyched to be there and to learn about how to run the scattergun in a defensive situation.

    Safety briefing: Ben talked us through the range orientation, what to do if there was a training accident and medical was needed. People were given jobs in the unlikely event something happened. Who to call, the correct words to say and the words not say. My job was the second runner with a truck, if the main runner was injured I was to take his place. Pay attention!

    We went around asking each of us what we wanted to get out of today’s class and our prior training experiences. For me, this was the first shotgun class I had taken. I wanted to learn the correct way to employ the shotgun in a defensive encounter. I had only “played on the static range” with my hallway howitzer before today.

    We started off with unloaded shotties at the 7-yard line, Ben showed us and explained the parts the shotgun and the different rest positions were going to use on the range. Ben demo’d how NOT to short stroke it and to rack it as we mean it. “..Shotgun are tough they won’t break…” ( a few shotgun’s broke during the class, but Ben had extras to loan out)

    We worked with unloaded guns for a while and then was given dummy rounds for us to practice the different type of loading processes. Over, under & in the magazine tube. Once we had motions down we loaded up some birdshot and shot the center mass of our target. We examined the birdshot patterns from 7 -15 yards.

    We shot a ton of birdshot, single shots, multiple shells, direct loading into the ejection/loading. (FUN!)

    We learned that not all buckshot is created equal. Ben showed us how Federal Flight Control 00 (FFC00) really holds super tight even at distance. Our low end 00 had much larger spreads than the FFC00. Amazing load for buckshot. *EYE OPENING* Oh yeah… the BUCK is much harder on your body. OWEE!

    We shot from standing, kneeling, rested kneel, double kneeling, sitting, on your side, prone. Prone is hard. I had a lot of trouble working/reaching the foregrip/slide when it was on the sand.

    All throughout the morning, we were constantly being reminded to FED THE MACHINE. Keep topping off - adding more shells in the magazine.

    We practiced slinging our shotgun while transitioning to pistol when the beast runs empty. I had issues with my memory when reholstering my pistol. I have not worn an OWB holster for a long…long time. I have been carrying AIWB and under a little bit of stress, I was trying to re-holster where the was no holster. (Good thing to learn in a class)

    We broke for lunch. Ben hung out chatting with students during the lunch break. Very personable and approachable. He has so much knowledge, just listening to his conversations I pick up tips… Never mind the super interesting stories he has….

    After lunch, we loaded up with slugs. AHHH YES! Love those huge bullets. Heavy recoil! BIG FUN! We shot different types of slugs at various distances. I was pleasantly surprised that I was making headshots at 25 yards. YIPEE!....But my reloads are still awkward and sloppy.

    We learned how to safely move forward, backward, left and right with a loaded gun and shot on the move while paying attention to the other shooters on the line while at the same time feeding the beast with shells.

    The drill that stands out in my memory was the last man standing drill. On the line: the first person would fire 5 shots, the next person would then fire 5 rounds. Down the line, until the last person fired. Person number one would have to have the gun loaded and fire his 5 rounds. If your gun was not fully loaded by your next time up, you were out. Rocco the awesome dude next to me had a semi-auto shotgun. I swear he ran that thing on MINIGUN. After round number two I was out.

    Paper targets were taken down and replaced with Steel (big smile!) We ran multiple drills on the steel with birdshot. So much FUN!! Our birdshot removed all his fresh paint on the steel targets. Nice and clean.

    We did one-handed shooting while the support hand was digging for shotgun food (AMMO). Tough to keep that shotgun up straight with one hand at the end of the day. Could not do it with the weight of my gun. I am a loser.

    We finished off the afternoon with shooting a 15 round string at steel. One at a time 5 targets. 3 reloads in this drill.

    We cleaned up the private range and sat down for a debrief. Looking around the group at the end of the day, we were dirty, sore and tired BUT we all had big f***ing grins on our faces…. We went around the group finding out what people liked, learned and did not like about the class.


    This was such a fun class. I love Ben’s teaching style. He explains clearly what he wants and then shows us by demoing the task from mutable angles and sometimes he does the demo again with different style guns. (PUMP vs SEMI) Ben really cares about his students and he takes the individual time to adjust us when we need an adjustment.

    We had a range of abilities and I was somewhere in the middle of the pack. All the guys were super cool and safe all day long. Ben never had to stop the line for being unsafe. We had 3 shotguns fail during the class. Ben is a talented armorer he was able to fix some of the issues. If he could not fix it on sight, he let you use one of his shotguns.

    The semi was having issues, (running dry w/lube).

    My takes:

    • My shotgun was way too heavy. The Surefire forearm has to GO! (bye bye). Could not hold the gun level pointing at the target with one hand.
    • My support hand index finger and thumb are all cut up from loading the magazine. Need to round those sharp edges. Fingers and thumbs bleed a lot.
    • I don’t like slings…
    • Federal Flight Control Buckshot is the way to go. Really great performing round.
    • Happy there was much less running than Ben Pistol class. (Defensive Pistol kicked my butt w/cardio)
    • Love the rifles sights vs the bead.
    • Did not need the RMR with the rifle sights, but I like having the consistency with my edc pistol.
    • Wear your knee pads.
    • Did not use my side saddle, ran shells from a dump pouch.
    ##

    ----
    From the companies website: Welcome to Onsight Firearms Training, LLC


    OnSight Firearms Training DEFENSIVE SHOTGUN
    PRIVATE FACILITY

    MIDDLEBORO, MA

    Meet up location will be:

    Seasons Corner Market:8 Cranberry Hwy, Rochester, Ma 02770

    at 8:00am sharp.

    We will car pool to the range from there.

    This class is limited to 8 people.

    $150.00

    8:30am to approx. 5:30pm


    This course is designed to introduce the beginner or intermediate shooter to the art of defensive and practical/tactical shotgun shooting.

    PREREQUISITES:

    Student should know and be able to perform all aspects of safe firearm handing.

    COURSE BREAKDOWN:

    Shotgun and firearm safety fundamentals

    Range safety and protocol

    Accuracy and skill development

    Shooting and moving

    Various shooting positions

    Loading and unloading techniques

    Reloading drills

    Multiple targets

    Home defense

    Malfunction drills

    Cover and concealment

    Cleaning and maintenance


    EQUIPMENT LIST:

    Quality, reliable “tactical style” or "home defense" pump action or semiauto shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge (Mossberg 500/590, Remington 870, Ithaca, etc.) - We will have shotguns available to loan – please contact us well before the class date if you need a shotgun.

    Semi-automatic pistol or revolver of their choice. (Optional if you have your NYS pistol permit)

    Ammunition dump pouch (optional- we will have some available for loan)

    Sturdy belt at least 1.5” wide

    Footwear suitable for rapid movement and turning with good ankle support.

    Clothing suitable for training in any weather/terrain. Layers suggested.

    Quality eye and ear protection

    knee pads (optional - but recommended)

    notepad and pen for taking notes.

    An open mind, humble, willing to learn attitude!


    AMMO LIST** –

    300 rounds of 2 ¾ bird shot/ game load #6, #7, or #8 shot.***

    50 rounds of 2 ¾ buck shot

    25 rounds of slug

    For more information or questions please contact: [email protected]

    ----------
     
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  2. OnSight Firearms Training

    OnSight Firearms Training Instructor NES Member

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    Thank you for the awesome review.
    Glad everyone enjoyed! We def. had alot of fun. Everyone kicked ass and kept it safe all day. Seriously cannot thank you guys enough for an awesome day on the range.
    We met all FOUR of the objectives for the day by far!
     
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  3. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    Damn jeffwatch. This has to be the best review that I've ever read. I really wish that I had been there.
     
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  4. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    I totally agree M60! And I was there!

    Everything that Jeff's most excellent review pointed out were dead-nutz accurate. Ben DeWalt really made the class for me. I have been to a few handgun training classes years ago when I was in my 30's, and of course Basic Training in the early 80's, and this was the one I will remember. Ben taught me things to do with a shotgun that I did not think were possible.
    (I'm not going to tell, you... you will have to see for yourself. [smile]) I will say this though, after taking this class with Ben, Rocco, Jeff, Christian, Steve, Dan, Joe, Jim and a couple of other great fellas, I have come out knowing what the capabilities of a Defensive Shotgun (as well as my own...) are, in almost any situation.

    Knowing what your shotgun, and you can do, are critical in any defensive situation. Goofing off at a range, without any real training, is not going to help you, ... of your family.
    Get great training from Ben at Onsite Firearms, (for short money too; 8hrs non-stop, except for a short lunch for $150 bucks? Are you nuts? Sign up while you can get this training virtually for free...) then take that training back with you to your own range for reinforcement drills. Hell, take the wife and kids and work them into your home defense plans, even if they don't want to do any shooting!

    YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO RUN A DEFENSIVE SHOTGUN.
    Don't let this line slide by you, it is a critical and useful piece of hardware.

    So, here's my Rating:

    On Site Firearms Instruction and Training = A+
    Range and Range Equipment = A+
    The Men I trained with and along side of............ A+

    Thanks Ben!

    ~Matt
     
  5. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    Damn, enbloc. I feel like I just missed out on the best sex of my life. After taking the course do you guys think that a bird barrel is best for the course or a buck barrel? I'm also wondering, if the M1 Super 90, is good or bad for the course, since it has a pistol grip, that might suck, for prone shooting. I think that I may still have the standard stock around here some where, if it's better suited for the task. I have a Remington 870, police model, with sights too, if a pump is better than a semi auto. Did you guys use backup handguns as well? If so, how many rounds fired at a given time? I've got an 8 shot Smith that I'd like to test, to see if a revolver makes any sense. What say you course graduates? Thanks a lot, for the summary here enbloc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  6. jeffwatch

    jeffwatch NES Member

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    It was not that good (the best sex in my life... but Ben class lastest longer!
     
  7. jeffwatch

    jeffwatch NES Member

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    I can't help you with the barrel question, but in my limited experince, I would say a pump is better than a semi for the class. The semi is ammo sensitive and when they get hot, dry and dirty they seem to have issues. Pumps just work... I ran a pump and had a semi on standby. We had dude running a pretty old shotgun with a 26-28" barrel. He ran it like a boss, the thing outperformed newer Gucci 870s and mossies.
     

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  8. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    Bring both. Why? If one fails/malfunctions you have a BU (2-is-1, 1-is-none) and you may find you prefer one over the other.
    I had a Mossy 590A1 in magpul hardware that I recently picked up, but had not fired. I set the magpul stock at the shortest position (no spacers) and it felt great at home. Nice and small
    and moved well throughout the house during room-clearing drills. Now at the range... it was not set up right (and I did not bring any spacers) My first shot with it shoved my right thumb deep into my nostrils and upper lip. GOOD MORNING CAMPERS!

    My fallback shotgun was an I.A.C. Hawk, which is a Remmy 870 clone made by Norinco (China.) Unfortunately Remington's 870 is inferior to the Hawk, because of their cost-cutting MIM parts and a few other quality issues. (I also own 3 other Rem 870's and the Marine Magnum version is nearly as well made as the Norinco) It gave me no issues feed and ejected well and came with Ghost Rings, which really made the slugs tighten up their groupings. I was putting together 8-10" groups at 25 yards that were tighter than my buckshot loads at 7!

    I switched back and forth on the two guns I brought. None had pistol grips, but those guys who did had no issues, and I think it helped with shoulder pain. [wink]

    As to barrel, just make sure it is a Cylinder Bore. Whether it is removable or fixed. The issues may begin when you get to slugs. Just make sure that whatever your ammo is, it is acceptable to YOUR SHOTGUN. Now that we live in "More than just lead" times (IE, Steelshot, Bismuth, Tungsten, Kryptonite...) some of the older shotguns do not do well with these new
    rounds when you get into Modified and Full chokes...

    You should definitely go M60, you won't regret it, and the class is run well, but no head games. Just fun and real good training!

    ~Enbloc
     
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  9. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    Lol. For sure! Jeffro was a mountain of a man, and when I watched him shoot his "Santa's Shotgun" with hi-power slugs it barely pushed his shoulder back.
    I look more effected shooting .22lr out of a Ruger 10/22... [rofl2]
     
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  10. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    More great info enbloc. thanks. My police 870 is an older version. No plastic internals and fairly good workmanship. The only change that I've made is the stock. I added one of those recoil reducing stocks. Damn thing really does work. The barrel has factory rifle sights that are pretty accurate with slugs and is cylinder bore. The MI Super 90, is a tack driver with slugs at 50 yards. If you have time to take careful aim, the slug holes touch each other. It also has iron sighs. I've never tried bird shot in either though. Hope it cycles in the auto. As back up, I can bring a nickeled 590A-1 with a bead front sight, that just sits in the safe usually. I'm wondering if the bead front sight might be better, for faster target acquisition, on this course, than the rifle sights. Not as accurate, but faster, I'm guessing.
     
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  11. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    What kind of shape are those target frames in after 300 rounds of bird shot? Lol. Not to mention buck shot too.
     
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  12. Buck Nekid

    Buck Nekid

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    If this shotgun course is typical of Ben’s style of training I know I’m coming back for more.
    What a day of great drills, perfect weather and remarkable people. Sometimes things just come together and you get one of those unique experiences where you really feel like you got what you paid for and then some. Ben has such a good professional approach and really works hard at making sure the trainees understand what the course of action will be. There were practically no lulls in the action, we were constantly shooting, reloading or recovering. It was a most excellent experience. And as has been said by others the company was superb. Everyone put in their best effort to get their money’s worth and it paid off big time.
    I’m looking forward to the next class Ben offers.
    This may remind you of why you liked shooting to begin with.
     
  13. jeffwatch

    jeffwatch NES Member

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    see the attached pic below:
    they are shredded in contractor bags
     

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  14. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    Yeah. Pretty much what I expected. Lol..
     
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  15. mcshooter

    mcshooter NES Life Member NES Member

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    I ran an older 870police trade in...to learn that anything can destroy your range day. My gun was out of commission 20 minutes into dry fire due to a hairline crack in the handguard. On a gun I ran many a trap round out of, not realizing that crack made it not good in a run your gun hard situation.
     
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  16. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    Yep. Both YOU and YOUR EQUIPMENT will be tested.
    In more than one of the drills, my equipment tested better than I did! [rofl2]

    Hey M60, bring every shotgun you own (they'll probably still weigh less than our beloved Pig!) and put them through the paces.
    By the end of the day, You will know which one loves you as much as you love her...!

    [​IMG]
    ~Enbloc
     
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  17. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    Ahhh, you bring back memories. Actually, I have a friend that as one. He will let me play with it if I link up the ammo. Lol.
     
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  18. M60

    M60 NES Member

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    Twenty six pounds, without the ammo. They run like a clock though, with regular cleaning and oiling and surprisingly accurate, when fired single shot, for such a big mutha.
     
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  19. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    26 lbs, that's like 3 shotguns... with ammo!
     
  20. Mass9mmshooter

    Mass9mmshooter NES Member

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    I also took this training class with Ben. His communication skills and teaching style makes you feel comfortable doing drills. I can’t say enough about his keen eye towards safety and making sure everyone knows what they are doing before a new drill began. Directions were crystal clear before we employing a new technique. We did a lot of things I’d never done with a shotgun. Met an AWESOME group of guys at the training.

    Dan
     

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