carrying while traveling through

[GLOCK.Perfection]

I have my ma ltc and ct pistol permit. When I am driving back to CT from MA according to this : http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/statutes/title11/11-47/11-47-8.HTM

I can carry right?

 

[res2cue]

You are correct

SECTION 11-47-8
The provisions of these sections shall not apply to any person who is the holder of a valid license or permit issued by the licensing authority of another state, or territory of the United States, or political subdivision of the state or territory, allowing him or her to carry a pistol or revolver in any vehicle or conveyance or on or about his or her person whether visible or concealed, provided the person is merely transporting the firearm through the state in a vehicle or other conveyance without any intent on the part of the person to detain him or herself or remain within the state of Rhode Island.

 

[alotquicka]

so i have a LTC-A in mass if i have to go pick someone up a d the driving through parking area at the airport and i dont even leave the truck, not even put the truck into park and pick my freind up then head back into mass is that o.k. pm for awnser thanks.. very very very curious..
thanks chris..

 

[jdubois]

so i have a LTC-A in mass if i have to go pick someone up a d the driving through parking area at the airport and i dont even leave the truck, not even put the truck into park and pick my freind up then head back into mass is that o.k.

No, the law is only valid for traveling 'through' the state. If you are stopping to pick somebody up at the airport in RI, even if you don't get out of your truck, your destination was within RI and you would not be covered under this or the federal safe passage law.

 

[alotquicka]

o.k. thanks so then what should i appley for.. ?

 

[jdubois]

I don't think you're likely to be able to get a non-resident permit in RI without owning a business there. RI law allows for it, but it's 'may issue' and business ownership seems to be the standard they use.

 

[salesman]

Please excuse my ignorance....

I travel to see the Inlaws in Maryland. Can I carry on my person (in my car traveling) through the states of RI, Conn, NY, NJ, Del, and Maryland to my destination and then not carry the weapon while in Maryland....then reverse the trip?

Thanks for the help.

Brian

 

[terraformer]

Please excuse my ignorance....

I travel to see the Inlaws in Maryland. Can I carry on my person (in my car traveling) through the states of RI, Conn, NY, NJ, Del, and Maryland to my destination and then not carry the weapon while in Maryland....then reverse the trip?

Thanks for the help.

Brian

Federal law only "protects" (never been tested as far as anyone knows I believe) you from local prosecution if the handgun is stored locked, unloaded, etc and that is only if your legal to "possess" in your destination, which given it is MD, I would suggest you confirm that as I doubt an out-of-stater in possession of a handgun is legal there.

 

[salesman]

Much thanks.

 

[alotquicka]

from what i can see the law says u may not reside or stay within the state.. but if i go to airport to get my friend and leave right after.. im not staying there at all.. is this a grey area..????????????
chris....

 

[jdubois]

from what i can see the law says u may not reside or stay within the state.. but if i go to airport to get my friend and leave right after.. im not staying there at all.. is this a grey area..????????????

There's nothing gray about the wording of the law. The key sentence is "intent on the part of the person to detain him or herself". If your intent is to briefly detain yourself so that you can pick up your friend at the airport, you are not covered by the law. To look at it another way, why are you going to RI? Is it because RI is between you and your destination, or is it because you have business in RI? An airport pickup is business in RI; It is intent to detain yourself; It is not legal.

 

[RKBA]

Multi-state trip & FOPA

Please excuse my ignorance....

No excuse needed - that's why we're here, trying to help each other out....

I travel to see the Inlaws in Maryland. Can I carry on my person (in my car traveling) through the states of RI, Conn, NY, NJ, Del, and Maryland to my destination and then not carry the weapon while in Maryland....then reverse the trip?

You cannot carry on your person on your way through NY for sure, as CCW is only allowed with the appropriate NY state pistol license (or under an applicable statutory exemption), and there is no provision in the law for the issuance of nonresident carry licenses. I think it's the same in CT, although CT does issue non-resident CCW licenses. RI law does have the carveouts mentioned in the previous posts for journeys without an intent to detain oneself in RI. I can't speak for NJ, DE or MD.

Assuming you can lawfully possess the handgun(s) at your origin and destination, and you're not a LEO, your only possibility to transport handgun(s) through all these states by car would be if you transported them unloaded, in a locked container, with ammunition separate, in accordance with the Firearms Owners Protection Act (aka FOPA, 18 U.S.C. §926A, which can be seen at http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html).

Federal law only "protects" (never been tested as far as anyone knows I believe) you from local prosecution if the handgun is stored locked, unloaded, etc and that is only if your legal to "possess" in your destination, which given it is MD, I would suggest you confirm that as I doubt an out-of-stater in possession of a handgun is legal there.

FOPA was tested in NY state in 2007 in connection with a NY state premises-residence pistol license and a Nevada non-resident CCW license. The case, Beach v. Kelly, is only 3 pages long, and you can read it here http://www.nysrpa.org/files/beach_v_kelly.pdf.

Hope this helps.

 

[terraformer]

FOPA was tested in NY state in 2007 in connection with a NY state premises-residence pistol license and a Nevada non-resident CCW license. The case, Beach v. Kelly, is only 3 pages long, and you can read it here http://www.nysrpa.org/files/beach_v_kelly.pdf.

Hope this helps.

That doesn't really test the part relevant to the OP, but it suggests that at least this judge in NY would go along. The key test however would be a NY conviction of a non new yorker for possession of a firearm while traveling between say CT and PA.

 

[RKBA]

FOPA & concealed carry

That doesn't really test the part relevant to the OP,....

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster was asking about the lawfulness of CCW'ing between MA and CT, two states where he/she is reportedly licensed to CCW. (Well, we actually don't know this, as we don't know if the OP's MA LTC-A had any restrictions on CCW, and the OP has never reappeared in this thread that I've seen.) Either way, however, FOPA (18 U.S.C. §926A) doesn't speak to CCW of firearms across state lines. It creates a safe harbor for the legal interstate transport of unloaded firearms which are not directly accessible, the very opposite of CCW.

...but it suggests that at least this judge in NY would go along.

I may be naive, but I would hope that any sitting judge, even in the people's republic of NY, would (i) have a clerk that could successfully find a controlling piece of the United States Code in a criminal case, and (ii) issue orders and judgments of law consistent with such controlling federal statute. If not, then where does that leave us? Please tell me we haven't fallen that far, at least not yet....

The key test however would be a NY conviction of a non new yorker for possession of a firearm while traveling between say CT and PA.

Agree - that would be an appropriate "test case" of FOPA in NY courts, particularly so if the non-new yorker was traveling 100% by private automobile, although (again) I can't see how there is any ambiguity in the statute law to require a "test case". I would hope that even the most zealous prosecutor wouldn't want to attempt such folly.

That said, there are certainly numerous reported instances in the past several years of individuals (non NY-ers) being arrested at NY airports for CPW or other related criminal law violations while they were engaging in what they (logically) thought was lawful interstate transport of firearms, at least in part relying on the FOPA safe harbor. I don't have any relevant cases to cite, but then again I haven't looked at this one in a while, so perhaps there have been one or more NY decisions on this.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster was asking about the lawfulness of CCW'ing between MA and CT, two states where he/she is reportedly licensed to CCW. (Well, we actually don't know this, as we don't know if the OP's MA LTC-A had any restrictions on CCW, and the OP has never reappeared in this thread that I've seen.) Either way, however, FOPA (18 U.S.C. §926A) doesn't speak to CCW of firearms across state lines. It creates a safe harbor for the legal interstate transport of unloaded firearms which are not directly accessible, the very opposite of CCW.

i am the op, and my ltc is unrestricted. I think the OP terraformer is referring to is the op asking about going for ct to pa, not me.

 

[terraformer]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster was asking about the lawfulness of CCW'ing between MA and CT, two states where he/she is reportedly licensed to CCW. (Well, we actually don't know this, as we don't know if the OP's MA LTC-A had any restrictions on CCW, and the OP has never reappeared in this thread that I've seen.) Either way, however, FOPA (18 U.S.C. §926A) doesn't speak to CCW of firearms across state lines. It creates a safe harbor for the legal interstate transport of unloaded firearms which are not directly accessible, the very opposite of CCW.

He stated (more like implied by that link) via RI where he did not state having a license.

I may be naive, but I would hope that any sitting judge, even in the people's republic of NY, would (i) have a clerk that could successfully find a controlling piece of the United States Code in a criminal case, and (ii) issue orders and judgments of law consistent with such controlling federal statute. If not, then where does that leave us? Please tell me we haven't fallen that far, at least not yet....

Agree - that would be an appropriate "test case" of FOPA in NY courts, particularly so if the non-new yorker was traveling 100% by private automobile, although (again) I can't see how there is any ambiguity in the statute law to require a "test case". I would hope that even the most zealous prosecutor wouldn't want to attempt such folly.

That said, there are certainly numerous reported instances in the past several years of individuals (non NY-ers) being arrested at NY airports for CPW or other related criminal law violations while they were engaging in what they (logically) thought was lawful interstate transport of firearms, at least in part relying on the FOPA safe harbor. I don't have any relevant cases to cite, but then again I haven't looked at this one in a while, so perhaps there have been one or more NY decisions on this.

I think you lay it out perfectly. There have been no convictions that we know of but there have definitely been arrests. If the cops consistently can't get it right, we are one dumb/motivated/activist prosecutor away from an attempted conviction. Also, how many of those arrests that have plead out to something else may not ever be known. I hope these people can read the law and not think there is any ambiguity but that case you sited shows that NYC is more than happy to test the narrowness of that statute. I hope it stays that way but I know cops who won't carry/transport through NYC and they have LEOSA, with FOPA to fall back on. NYC's reputation may precede it, but having lived in it's shadow for 22 yrs, I can say that reputation may well be deserved. They could care less about the outside world.

 

[RKBA]

More bad news for NYC premises pistol license holders w/r/t FOPA

I apologise for a bit of threadjacking here, but the NY case I cited in support of state court recognition of FOPA, Beach v. Kelly, has had a further development in June 2008. I've just done some further digging online, and it seems that Mr. Beach lost his case for reinstatement of his pistol license on appeal (N.Y. Appellate Division - 1st Department). You can read the decision here http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2008/2008_05814.htm, but I'll repeat the core text of the opinion so that everyone can get a taste of what passes for justice in the people's republic of NY.

Judgment, Supreme Court, New York County (Jane S. Solomon, J.)...[SNIP]....

Petitioner held a premises residence pistol permit that had been suspended on two prior occasions for violation of the license terms. This time, he took his handgun to Nevada to attend a gun convention, even though the license permitted him to carry the firearm only to small arms ranges/shooting clubs and authorized hunting areas.

Petitioner argues that notwithstanding any other provision of law, rule or regulation of any state, the Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) (18 USC § 926A) permits the transportation of firearms for any lawful purpose between two places where an individual may "lawfully possess and carry" the firearm. Since he was permitted to carry his gun in New York and held a license to carry a firearm in Nevada, he asserts the agency's determination was arbitrary and capricious.

Possession of a handgun is a privilege, not a right, and is subject to the broad discretion of the New York City Police Commissioner (Matter of Papaioannou v Kelly, 14 AD3d 459 [2005]). The power to issue a license for such purpose necessarily and inherently includes the authority to impose conditions and restrictions (People v Thompson, 92 NY2d 957, 959 [1998]). The fact that it was lawful for him to carry his firearm to a small arms range/shooting club or designated hunting area is beside the point. Petitioner violated the terms of his premises residence license when he carried his firearm to and from the airport for his trip to Nevada.

It is not necessary to permit holders of premises residence firearms licenses to transport guns to another state in order to harmonize the law of this State with the provisions of FOPA. Section 926A permits a licensee, in certain circumstances, to transport a firearm "from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm." Where the licensee is not permitted by the terms of the license to lawfully carry the firearm at the time he embarks on a trip to another state, FOPA is inapplicable. {emphasis mine}

Moreover, petitioner testified at the administrative hearing that he had been informed by personnel of the License Division that he was not permitted to take his gun to Nevada without written permission from the Division. He chose to disregard this advice and follow his own interpretation of the law. The agency's determination that petitioner violated the terms of his premises residence firearms license was not arbitrary and capricious. Concur—Saxe, J.P., Nardelli, Moskowitz, Acosta and DeGrasse, JJ. ​

With this ruling, the NY state Appellate Division is basically saying that NYC premises licensees may not take their pistols out of the state without explicit permission from the NYPD, notwithstanding FOPA or any other law, due to the fact that premises licenses don't allow "carry" at the point of inception of the journey. Note that they don't in any way attempt to disregard or ignore FOPA -- they just read the FOPA language of "lawfully possess and carry such firearm" to be exclusive of the limited transportation privileges conferred by the NYPD premises pistol license.

How is a NYC premises pistol licensee is supposed to lawfully take his or her pistols to a new legal jurisdiction when he or she moves? Lawfully carry the pistols while lawfully hunting on land (or while at an "authorized range") that abuts the NY state border with VT or CT (with CT non-resident CCW license), and then walk across the border?

I think I've cited the original NYS Supreme Court Beach v. Kelly case elsewhere on NortheastShooters.com, so please excuse me while I now go and track those references down to update them on this untoward development.

 

[terraformer]

With this ruling, the NY state Appellate Division is basically saying that NYC premises licensees may not take their pistols out of the state without explicit permission from the NYPD...

This is my shocked face... That NYC would not give a damn and believe with great conviction that they can control the behavior of one of their subjects when not in their jurisdiction is so not surprising.