Boston PD IDPA match: require assistance

[Will Brink]

Folks, from my contacts at BPD, I have offered the idea of an BPD IDPA match that would take place on "the island" that is the BPD range. I have been given the initial OK for such a match. This would be an LEO only match, at least the first annual, with (hopefully) extending to surrounding PDs in the future. I am waiting for more specific in terms of dates, but the general idea of such a match has been given the green light so far. That has been no easy thing...

I think this is an exciting and great PR opportunity for the IDPA, for LEO/civi interactions, and great training for the BPD LEOs who decide to attend. It's a win win for all involved.

What is needed now is, a Co-match director and SOs to set up and run this match, with myself involved also as Co-director. They must be IDPA affiliated, and experienced in running IDPA matches. I did approach someone from Metro West Tactical at the 5/17 classifier, but he felt they had their hands too full this season to run such a match.

Again, this match is in it's initial planning stages with many details to be worked out, but with the general OK given, I wanted to start putting the word out. PM me if interested in being part of this project as experienced IDPA match director and or SOs.

 

[P-14]

Will:

When (date and time) are you tentatively planning this event?

Bob

 

[Will Brink]

Will:

When (date and time) are you tentatively planning this event?

Bob

Until I get some real dates, I was hoping for perhaps July-Aug, but it's fuzzy right now. Might have to be Sept, dont know. I have to meet with the BPD range director shortly to narrow down their schedule and such, but it took months to just get the initial green light on the idea itself. Nothing happens quickly in that area... How much lead time does you normally need to ramp up for such a thing?

 

[jar]

I'm not an SO or MD, but I'd be happy to help in any way that I could.

 

[Mike-Mike]

I'm not an SO or MD, but I'd be happy to help in any way that I could.

ME 2, I am an NRA instructor but not an SO or MD but if you got a spot for me, let me know.

 

[Will Brink]

I'm not an SO or MD, but I'd be happy to help in any way that I could.

Thanx for the offer. Right now, experienced MD and IDPA qualified SOs are what's needed so when given a date of some kind, so we can ramp up quickly. For sure, additional help may be required as it develops.

 

[P-14]

Will:

Have you thought of supplies (targets, stands, swingers, steel, timers, etc.) for the match? Where were you thinking of getting them from if BPD doesn't have them?

My thoughts only.

Bob

 

[Will Brink]

Will:

Have you thought of supplies (targets, stands, swingers, steel, timers, etc.) for the match? Where were you thinking of getting them from if BPD doesn't have them?

My thoughts only.

Bob

Hopefully, they could be borrowed from a club for an afternoon if the BPD range does not have appropriate stands, etc. No doubt, the more the MD and SOs via a club that does IDPA could supply the better.

Step one would be getting a solid date from BPD range

Step two, get MD and SOs squared away

Step Three, generate a list of what's required for a match and see what exists at the BPD range and what needs to be supplied/borrowed, etc.

Not having been a MD or co MD, I am a bit behind the curve on this area, so any help appreciated as to my thoughts on Steps 1,2,3 and their order.

 

[Jaxon]

Depending on the date, I'd be willing to SO.

 

[TY43215]

Some comments:
1. If you have never worked with LEOs on a firearms range, and you are new to IDPA, do not volunteer for this. This requires those experienced in controlling a range.

2. Moon Island used to have a bit of gear but I have not been there for some time.

3. You will need a budget for targets, water for SOs stands, and more. etc. Where will that cash come from?

4. I am willing to assist in any way I can short of being the match director. I was formerly a LE instructor and I know of at least 2 LEOs that are certified Safety Officers plus Jaxon. You need three per stage or squad plus back ups.

5. Have you ever watched the IDPA Video "How to run a match" ?



This needs to be discussed off this forum for many reasons but I am willing to help (As Jaxon stated depending on the day of the week)

The only way this will be successful is with a good supply of props, people, and past experience. You may be better off trying this at an established club that has the necessary gear already.

If I can help, contact me

Use this e mail TY43215 AT comcast.net for contact NOT the one in my profile.

regards,

Gary

 

[TY43215]

Hopefully, they could be borrowed from a club for an afternoon if the BPD range does not have appropriate stands, etc. No doubt, the more the MD and SOs via a club that does IDPA could supply the better.

Step one would be getting a solid date from BPD range

Step two, get MD and SOs squared away

Step Three, generate a list of what's required for a match and see what exists at the BPD range and what needs to be supplied/borrowed, etc.

Not having been a MD or co MD, I am a bit behind the curve on this area, so any help appreciated as to my thoughts on Steps 1,2,3 and their order.

You need to change the order of your list.

Step one: generate a list of what is needed to have the match

Step 2 figure out what is available and how you will get what is not

step 3 make sure you have adequate experienced staff to run a match

step 4 set a date.

If you set a date and have to back out because of missing components from steps one thru three, you will look bad. no need to set yourself up like that as this is a great idea.

Edit to add:

I am sorry to be negative about this but I have seen many of these ideas crash and burn for one reason or another.

 

[Will Brink]

Some comments:
1. If you have never worked with LEOs on a firearms range, and you are new to IDPA, do not volunteer for this. This requires those experienced in controlling a range.

I am not new to IDPA or working with LEOs on a range, but I have not been an MD for an IDPA match, thus why I requested an experienced MD to work with as I am smart enough not to jump into such a thing without ever having been a MD for an IDPA match.

2. Moon Island used to have a bit of gear but I have not been there for some time.

The Island has had some improvements in the past few years, but I dont know what they have exactly at it related to the IDPA match per se.

3. You will need a budget for targets, water for SOs stands, and more. etc. Where will that cash come from?

No idea at the moment, have to hash that out shortly no doubt.

4. I am willing to assist in any way I can short of being the match director. I was formerly a LE instructor and I know of at least 2 LEOs that are certified Safety Officers plus Jaxon. You need three per stage or squad plus back ups.

I assume the SOs need to be IDPA certified SOs as they need to know the rules for scoring in addition to the safety issues, but experienced MD posting here can clarify that.

5. Have you ever watched the IDPA Video "How to run a match" ?

I have not, but that's a good idea. Will do.

This needs to be discussed off this forum for many reasons but I am willing to help (As Jaxon stated depending on the day of the week)

The only way this will be successful is with a good supply of props, people, and past experience. You may be better off trying this at an established club that has the necessary gear already.

That's possible too, but I think less likely to attract enough BPD LEO's. Perhaps an open to all LEOs match might work, but I don't seem them driving out to a club at this point.

If I can help, contact me

Use this e mail TY43215 AT comcast.net for contact NOT the one in my profile.

regards,

Gary

Will do, thanx for the comments and ideas, etc.

 

[Will Brink]

You need to change the order of your list.

Step one: generate a list of what is needed to have the match

Step 2 figure out what is available and how you will get what is not

step 3 make sure you have adequate experienced staff to run a match

step 4 set a date.

A good list. First however I will need an experienced MD at the very least to generate the list, which I can then look into when next I go out to the island and see what they have to work with. I have a feeling a good portion will have to be borrowed or rented, etc to fill in much of it, but we start scraping together what's needed early, and deal as it goes.

If you set a date and have to back out because of missing components from steps one thru three, you will look bad. no need to set yourself up like that as this is a great idea.

Roger.

Edit to add:

I am sorry to be negative about this but I have seen many of these ideas crash and burn for one reason or another.

I wont even discuss how long it took to get as far as I gave gotten now, and sure, it may crash and burn. At which point, I will try another idea, that may or may not crash and burn... Such is life. I am also trying to get sponsorship for some buds that are putting together a team for the CT SWAT challenge BTW, which may crash and burn too!

I am anything if not persistent.....

 

[jar]

IIRC there's a BPD officer who shoots the WPRC matches semi-regularly. You may want to try and get him involved if you haven't already. I'm not an MD, but as a shooter, the list of equipment required is pretty straightforward. Off the top of my head:
Target stands, targets, spraypaint and stencils to mark shoot/no shoot targets,pasters, timers, props (I'd say at least a couple of barricades and barrels), scoresheets, clipboards, pens, a couple rulebooks.

The only really tricky part is good stage designs. That really requires knowledge of what you have available range wise. The stages for the IDPA postal match may be helpful, as they're designed to be do-able on most ranges.

Another concern is understanding of the rules. If all of the shooters are unfamiliar with IDPA (and probably action shooting competition in general), you're probably going to have some issues there. It would probably be a good idea to talk this issue over with a BPD officer who also shoots IDPA, if you can find one. You may want to modify the rules, such as allowing mags to be loaded to capacity. I'm guessing they all have the same duty pistol anyway, so this should be fine fairness wise.

I definitely recommend stenciling a gun or knife on all of the threat targets. There was a great article in Tactical Journal recently about how shooting matches where any target that doesn't have open hands on it is a threat isn't good training for the street. Yes, IDPA is a game and not training, but this a little thing that slightly improves training value with no cost to the game.

 

[Will Brink]

IIRC there's a BPD officer who shoots the WPRC matches semi-regularly. You may want to try and get him involved if you haven't already. I'm not an MD, but as a shooter, the list of equipment required is pretty straightforward. Off the top of my head:
Target stands, targets, spraypaint and stencils to mark shoot/no shoot targets,pasters, timers, props (I'd say at least a couple of barricades and barrels), scoresheets, clipboards, pens, a couple rulebooks.

The only really tricky part is good stage designs. That really requires knowledge of what you have available range wise. The stages for the IDPA postal match may be helpful, as they're designed to be do-able on most ranges.

Another concern is understanding of the rules. If all of the shooters are unfamiliar with IDPA (and probably action shooting competition in general), you're probably going to have some issues there. It would probably be a good idea to talk this issue over with a BPD officer who also shoots IDPA, if you can find one. You may want to modify the rules, such as allowing mags to be loaded to capacity. I'm guessing they all have the same duty pistol anyway, so this should be fine fairness wise.

I definitely recommend stenciling a gun or knife on all of the threat targets. There was a great article in Tactical Journal recently about how shooting matches where any target that doesn't have open hands on it is a threat isn't good training for the street. Yes, IDPA is a game and not training, but this a little thing that slightly improves training value with no cost to the game.

Some good thoughts on the above, thanx. Yes, most shooters will be unfamiliar with the rules, some modifications may be needed, but there may be limits to how much that can be done and still be IDPA sanctioned, I don't know. Needs looking into for sure. I know a few BPD guys who shoot IDPA, and they are going to be part of the crew, etc. I don't know the BPD guy who shoots IDPA at WPRC.

On stage designs, I would either go down there with the co MD so he can see what there is to work with, or I can go take pics, get general measurements, etc when the time comes, it's not a big range, so it would probably be limited number of stages.

 

[jkelly]

...but there may be limits to how much that can be done and still be IDPA sanctioned...Will Brink

Will I haven't read the whole thread, but how can you run a sanctioned match at a non-member club?


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[TY43215]

Will I haven't read the whole thread, but how can you run a sanctioned match at a non-member club?


Respectfully,

jkelly

I know, I know!!!!!

You can not have a sanctioned match unless at an IDPA club. You can not shoot a sanctioned match unless classified in one of five divisions. You can not get classified unless an IDPA member.

There is a difference between running a match and running a sanctioned match.

Where are you located Will? Maybe we can sit and talk. I think you can be the Match Director with just a little guidance. Watch the video first.

As for the other sponsor gig, we need to talk about that too Please send me an e mail so I have your address.

Edit to add: Will I was not referring to you as far as the experience with IDPA-LEO is concerned. I was referring to others here that have never worked a match and have never worked with Law Enforcement on a range. It is a whole different world.

 

[Will Brink]

Will I haven't read the whole thread, but how can you run a sanctioned match at a non-member club?


Respectfully,

jkelly

Well crap, had not thought of that! Another small problem to overcome....

That one might sink me!

 

[Will Brink]

I know, I know!!!!!

You can not have a sanctioned match unless at an IDPA club. You can not shoot a sanctioned match unless classified in one of five divisions. You can not get classified unless an IDPA member.

Well that does put a wrench into things. I doubt I can get the BPD range officer to bother getting the place IDPA sanctioned as a club.

There is a difference between running a match and running a sanctioned match.

Sounds strongly like it will be a non sanctioned match at this point.

Where are you located Will?

Metro West area.

Maybe we can sit and talk. I think you can be the Match Director with just a little guidance. Watch the video first.

Is that on the main IDPA site? I prefer doing it as a co MD at this point.

As for the other sponsor gig, we need to talk about that too Please send me an e mail so I have your address.

It's [email protected]

Edit to add: Will I was not referring to you as far as the experience with IDPA-LEO is concerned. I was referring to others here that have never worked a match and have never worked with Law Enforcement on a range. It is a whole different world.

Well with additional LEO help, etc, that part can be handled without a great deal of problems.

 

[Lugnut]

Will- I suggest that before you embark on such an endeavor- you get IDPA SO certified and run some stages at some local stages. Scoring and taping isn't enough experience to manage such an event IMO. You've got some good advice from some experienced people so far- and it's good advice. Personally I think that most of the local chapter memebers have their hands full running practices and matches at their clubs. Why don't you invite them to a match at WPRC, MWT? Seems like it would be a heck of a lot easier to squad up a bunch and come here. Oh- and without any "crash courses" for them it will be "fun" for sure.

 

[TY43215]

Will- I suggest that before you embark on such an endeavor- you get IDPA SO certified and run some stages at some local stages. Scoring and taping isn't enough experience to manage such an event IMO. You've got some good advice from some experienced people so far- and it's good advice. Personally I think that most of the local chapter memebers have their hands full running practices and matches at their clubs. Why don't you invite them to a match at WPRC, MWT? Seems like it would be a heck of a lot easier to squad up a bunch and come here. Oh- and without any "crash courses" for them it will be "fun" for sure.

Will, if you are not an IDPA SO, you can not be a Match Director for an IDPA match. See rule book Appendix 6 Page 55.

 

[MFP4073]

You can not have a sanctioned match unless at an IDPA club. You can not shoot a sanctioned match unless classified in one of five divisions. You can not get classified unless an IDPA member.

Sounds like it maybe time to attend a USPSA match.

I know- I know Gary, I am only kidding.

 

[Will Brink]

Will, if you are not an IDPA SO, you can not be a Match Director for an IDPA match. See rule book Appendix 6 Page 55.

Fine, I will be called something else. Moot point to me really. I really wanted an experienced MD to play that roll while I run interference with other issues that will come up. Just though co MD made sense.

 

[jar]

Will, if you are not an IDPA SO, you can not be a Match Director for an IDPA match. See rule book Appendix 6 Page 55.

Well, we've already established that the match won't be at an IDPA club, so it's already not really an IDPA match.

 

[Will Brink]

Well, we've already established that the match won't be at an IDPA club, so it's already not really an IDPA match.

Which is really too bad as I wanted it to be a great PR app for IDPA. Regardless, will be a IDPA-like match with IDPA applicable rules, with perhaps a few small changes to be more LEO specific, but that's conjecture right now.

 

[P-14]

Will:

Sounds like you want an action pistol match that follows IDPA rules and run by IDPA SOs. Lugnut is correct. We are all committed to our respective club's schedules this year. That is why I am hesitant to jump in with much now except advice (even though it would be a great chance to work with LEOs and the BPD).

Planning such a match is not really that difficult, but staffing it and picking a time when the people running it can do it is the issue.

I can show you all the forms, etc. for running the action pistol match. I can even give you websites that have COFs for everyone to use. But at this time of the year, right through the early fall, I think the SOs are already commited.

My thoughts only.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Jaxon]

Sit down now. Take a deep breath.

Work on the dates first, there is some ramp up time for a match. If the dates don't work for any staff volunteers, then you'll need to drop back and look at this again.

Logistics next. Staff, equipment, #stages/COF, etc. Watching the aforementioned video is an exellent primer.

All of the advice floating about has been solid and perhaps overwhelming at times.

We'll be around to help if and when we can.

 

[Will Brink]

Will:

Sounds like you want an action pistol match that follows IDPA rules and run by IDPA SOs. Lugnut is correct. We are all committed to our respective club's schedules this year. That is why I am hesitant to jump in with much now except advice (even though it would be a great chance to work with LEOs and the BPD).

Planning such a match is not really that difficult, but staffing it and picking a time when the people running it can do it is the issue.

I can show you all the forms, etc. for running the action pistol match. I can even give you websites that have COFs for everyone to use. But at this time of the year, right through the early fall, I think the SOs are already commited.

My thoughts only.

Regards,

Bob

Thanx for the thoughts and info. I will update you after I meet with the BPD range director which should be fairly soon.

 

[P-14]

Will:

May I suggest that you sit down with BPD and pick 3 or 4 POSSIBLE dates that work for them. When their range is free, the LEOs can come, etc. Also, MWT has a calendar that compiles all IDPA and USPSA matches for MA clubs. Riverside's matches may not be on it, but they are posted here. Almost every weekend through the end of September has an IDPA or USPSA match scheduled this year. Bring these match dates with you when you plan with BPD to avoid conflicts.

Then, propose the dates to us and the Riverside, WPRC, MWT and other (New Bedford?) yahoo groups to see if any IDPA SOs can make them.

The clubs running matches charge an entry fee to participants to cover their costs. I doubt BPD will charge one. You need to see if BPD will buy targets (1 or 2 boxes of IDPA-type) and pasters. The clubs, with the proper waiver of liability from BPD (that you also need to see if BPD will agree to sign), will (as a group) probably loan BPD enough stands, swingers, poppers, etc. for a day - as long as it doesn't conflict with the various clubs' matches.

More food for thought.

Regards,

Bob