Anyone ever try using an ACOG as an Occluded Eye Gunsight? You must have binocular vision for an OEG to work. By keeping the front cap down on the ACOG one eye sees the reticle in the sight and the other eye sees the target. Binocular vision lets you see both at once, superimposing the image of the red dot on the target essentially turning the ACOG into a rudimentary red dot (or whatever color your reticle is) sight. Supposedly works well at close distance.
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
ACOG as OEG
- Thread starter wolfhook
- Start date
There's no point in doing it with an Eotech or Aimpoint since they 1X already and have a wide field of vision which is why the question was regarding ACOGs since most are 3X and up which does not work well for fast acquisition in close quarters. The point was to essentially be able to use your longer distance sight in close quarters in a pinch.
Last edited:
Check out this post for some interesting info:Phoria and ACOG
I have.
When the ACOG (RCO in Marine speak) first became prevalent in the Marine Corps, we would deliberately tape over the objective lens / Kill Flash to occlude the shooting eye.
The purpose of this was to transition shooters (who had previously only shot with iron sights) to firing with their non-dominate eye open - hence the RCO was acting as a Occluded Eye Gunsight (OEG). We would live fire some drills so that the shooters became comfortable with superimposing the chevron onto the target and were then getting good hits.
Once the shooters became proficent at that, we would remove the tape and shoot the same drills, while coaching the students to keep both eyes open. Like most things, many of them got it right away and others needed remedial training.
There are some Point Of Aim - Point Of Impact differences with the ACOG at close range. It is most noticeable when shooting with both eyes open. The tendency is to string shots diagonally (around 10 or 2 o'clock depending on which side you shoot from) and not just from the mechanical offset produced by the line of sight - line of bore difference.
More recently, Pat Rogers (of E.A.G. Tactical) has put forth that placing a flip up scope cover over the objective lens of the ACOG is a method to mitigate this predicament. Basically, you keep the lid closed for up close, and flip it down for extended range.
For the couple of bucks it cost to buy a cheap scope cover, I decided to give it a try.
In my case, I decided to install the scope cover so that it flipped down, vice up. This make it a little less obstusive and not prone to being torn off. It flips down under spring tension and lays nicely on top of the M1913 rail.
I have only done a little plinking and some self motivated training with it, so I'm not sure how the methology / skill set would stand up in a 3 -5 day class, but reaching up with the support hand to flip it open and engaging a target was no big deal.
I'd say the purpose behind switching sighting methods would be equivalent to choosing to move a 3x magnifier in and out from behind your red dot sight. Same thought process, different method.
FWIW, in the early 1990s, I was also involved with field testing the OEG when the Marines were considering buying it.
.
They're designed to be used with both eyes open. I'm referring to blocking the front and using the both eyes open technique to "project" the reticle onto an unobstructed field of view eliminating the magnification aspect of the ACOG which makes fast acquisition difficult at close distances.
Andy in NH, thanks for that insight.
Andy t, thanks for that link. The test they tried was at 25 yards which is significantly further than I would ever anticipate using this method so I'm not surprised shots were that far off. I'd like to see a much closer test (10-15 yards). Everyone's eyes focus differently and will locate the reticle at a different point on the target.
Last edited:
I was being sarcastic. I hear what your saying, but in reality it isnt going to effect you as much as your putting it. The big reason why I think its stupid, is the fact you lose 50% of your situational awareness as one eye is staring into a dark hole with a red dot in it. In a close fight you need to maximize all of your SA not limit yourself. If you shoot with both eyes open you wont be stuck purely in the 3x world. But, take away half your vision in a gunfight, I dont know about that one.
That's the thing though, with both eyes open at close range with a magnified optic it's much more difficult to process info, essentially bouncing back and forth between 1x and and 3x which is extremely disconcerting, confusing and nearly impossible for the brain to process. Binocular vision, our standard way of seeing things will "bypass" the dark hole your referring to and put the reticle right in your field of vision, laying what one eye sees over what the other sees. Granted, it's not optimum, I'm not arguing that point, but it is very do-able.
Last edited:
I think it would make more sense to mount one of those small doctor red dots onto the acog. As P2A said, you're cutting off half of your sight on the target. Supposedly you can train to use an acog at all but the closest distances. Beyond that you could point shoot into the target anyway.
I'll have to try that covering the lens technique when I get my acog though, interesting stuff.
I'll have to try that covering the lens technique when I get my acog though, interesting stuff.
Its even more difficult to process info if you cant see it. I dont understand how it is impossible, thousands of people do it everyday with ACOGs and have no issue. Ive used ACOGS, EOtechs, Dr. Optics, and unfortunately a couple Aimpoints over the years, as long as you train with an optic, you can make it work. If you have binocular vision, your brain is going to process the 1x info, your gonna have SA, and see who is trying to kill you. 50% of your SA is in that optic, covering it is stupid, why dont we wear eye patches when we shoot pistol? CQB is a close, fast fight, who ever has an advantage is going to win by putting rounds on target the fastest. Limiting your situational awareness puts you at a great disadvantage to your adversary.
In regards to the Dr. Optic/ ACOG point that was brought up, that in my opinion is the best optic I have ever had issued to me. For a couple reasons, The Dr. Optic being mounted on top of your ACOG makes the shooter keep their head up, enabling them to be more situational aware, using their entire eye, not just the upper half. And positioning the head to be able to scan, assess and engage allot faster. The Dr. Optic has an either 6moa or 8moa dot in it, so when one needs to make a precise/ distance shot they just need to look down through their ACOG, great combination.
I don't know if we're on the same page. Yes, people do it with ACOGs everyday but primarily at distances, not up close. I'm talking about attempting using an ACOG (3x, 4x, 6x) at close range (across a room, 20 ft, ten yards, whatever) for QUICK acquisition. Finding a target fast with both eyes open in an entry/home defense situation with high magnification would be nearly impossible. And, again, all I was saying is that OEG it is quite feasible in a pinch. Not optimum, not a replacement for a 1x sight, but feasible.
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
ochmude
Marine Veteran
For what it's worth, Table 3 of the Marine Corps Combat Marksmanship Program, which is the course of fire involving the ACOG, is not shot at considerable distance. All rounds are fired at either the 5, 10, 15, or 25 yard line, or while walking from the 25 to the 5. It's pretty easy and the magnification (4x I believe for the issued RCO) seems to speed up target acquisition rather than hinder it.
Last edited:
No we obviously aren't on the same page. What distances are they engaging with their ACOGs? Have you ever made an entry with an ACOG? I have, worked pretty good. In my old unit any CQM competitions we all would use ACOGs, and win, accuracy and time. Ochmude was spot on in his post, I'll leave it at that. I think your just misinformed and spreading disinformation. Its practical, theres a reason why so many people who USE their optics use ACOGs, their not taped over, not covered over but somehow they seem to win.
Aren't you refering to the "Binon" feature of the ACOG? You shoot with both eyes open and let your brain do the merge. Around 1967 I bought an Aimpoint at an English Gun Club. It looked like todays aimpoint except you couldn't see through the tube. You looked past the tube with your other eye and your brain merged the two. A red dot in the tube would be superimposed on your target. Worked good. I've reached the point where all my shooting is both eyes open. But I believe its called Binon feature. I've ACOG and Eotech and really haven't thought much about it. I just shoot...
